Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia
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I'll admit to skipping a few pages here but there is a subtlety I have not seen mention of.
When surfacing for a bearings check as they did a drysuit will vent (shrink wrap) tightly while bobbing plumb in the water with the vent open. When dropping back to 20 feet or less and knowing you are going to progress shallower it's tempting to remain squeezed to take a pass on venting and enjoy the wetsuit like feel. The established facts of her gear point to some drysuit lift being essential. If she did not add some loft she would be in for some strenuous swimming.
Take a strenuous swim, add potentially larger than normal fins and there is an elevated risk of leg cramps. While not fatal they can be a severe distraction if something else happened at the same time. If she did add air but her legs became buoyant then kicking down against buoyant legs is also a prescription for cramps. This diminishes as one dives that configuration more and more but it was new to her. If she was in fact wearing her loftiest garment to date that would exacerbate the situation.
Pete
When surfacing for a bearings check as they did a drysuit will vent (shrink wrap) tightly while bobbing plumb in the water with the vent open. When dropping back to 20 feet or less and knowing you are going to progress shallower it's tempting to remain squeezed to take a pass on venting and enjoy the wetsuit like feel. The established facts of her gear point to some drysuit lift being essential. If she did not add some loft she would be in for some strenuous swimming.
Take a strenuous swim, add potentially larger than normal fins and there is an elevated risk of leg cramps. While not fatal they can be a severe distraction if something else happened at the same time. If she did add air but her legs became buoyant then kicking down against buoyant legs is also a prescription for cramps. This diminishes as one dives that configuration more and more but it was new to her. If she was in fact wearing her loftiest garment to date that would exacerbate the situation.
Pete
DevonDiver
N/A
I don't believe in infallibility, regardless of experience or training level. We all panic/stress when things get bad enough. Things get bad very, very quickly when deprived of air. Whilst a seasoned pro won't panic initially when air depleted, they will when the grey tunnel vision creeps in.. Fear of impending death causes acute panic response in all of us. Greater experience/training just lets us reason against that impending death for longer. In some cases, that reasoning can get us into more trouble, by delaying an urgent response at the critical time.
Dr. Lecter
Contributor
All of which brings us back to the question of why she stayed with the rig at all, given the reported shallow depth and non-deco profile. Trying to swim it up at that point strikes me as a fatal wrong choice when faced with a sudden lack of anything around to breathe.
Though something else really puzzles me: if I'm dying for lack of gas on the bottom and someone later finds me there dead with a fully inflated wing full of gas that would have given me another few minutes to get the
out of there...I was either incapacitated or too panicked to think my way out of the trap.
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I really wonder if the drysuit was too restrictive for her to remove her gear easily. She relayed to me that it was quite tight, so tight that she apparently hadn't left any room for the undergarment. Has anybody dived the DUI 30/30? I'm not familiar with it but it does look like it could be a closely fitting suit.
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I think my XL Oceanic Probe has 60# of lift. The specs are given as 28ltr now and I have no idea what that means, but the reviews say up to 60#. It takes up a hell of a lot of bag room, traveling & boarding, but it's got what I want when I want to float high on the surface - or dive a dry suit. It's been too long since I dived dry tho, and I don't remember how much lead that took. More than the 30# integrated I think, but then I practice dumping weights first dive of every trip to keep it a fresh skill. So very many bodies are found with weights on.
Yeah, I'd just rather call it a tropical wing/BC, as I think that just might help people accept that it wouldn't be adequate for Seattle, or a dry suit anywhere.
Reading this post I have some serious concerns with my new setup.
1.8m 90kg, aluminium back plate, 2 x 12 steels with manifold, new waterproof hybrid (with inner layer), thin woollen thermal wear and I am needing 25 lb to sink when the tanks are at 30 bar. Ensured I had NO air in my lungs at all. Seems here people are suggesting I am too heavy. With twin independent's and no manifold I need about 34 lb to sink. The dry suit is as empty as I can get it as well and squeezing me at 3 metres.
Is this a reasonable weight? I have spoken to a number of people and they say only 12-15 lb but I suspect if they empty their rigs they will float and depend on having always 1/3 reserve so some extra weight. Is there anything I should be doing to check if I have the right weight to start with? Am I missing something?
I don't wish to be another statistic? With a wetsuit and BCD or wing I have always been very happy with my weight, rig and the "balance" of it. Always minimal weight. I have done significant dives with a wing, twins and wetsuit and always feel very comfortable.
Being the dry suit is new, and also reading of incidents like this I do have some concerns.
I normally set my rig as per; the diver can be neutral at 10' with no gas in their BC and a near empty tank
Any further thoughts???
---------- Post added October 12th, 2013 at 05:43 PM ----------
Ok what if you can stop with empty rig (30 BAR) at 3 m but cannot swim up with full rig? I don't know my full combination yet
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Ive been biting my tongue for several days now. Ive finally bitten all the way through it, so now Ill post.
Marcia was a highly accomplished tropical diver. She was a capable cold water diver in a wetsuit. Never forget one thing, why she splashed . For her, it was all about observing and photographing her beloved sea creatures.
Cold water diving is perfect for gear freaks, like me. I enjoy the challenge of adjusting to the situation at hand. I like to progress scientifically and systematically. Extend my range... None of this held any interest for Marcia. Doppler once said something to me that really stuck. And let the source, himself, correct me if I misquote, but it was something like I wish they made a pill to correct vision and allow me to breathe and be warm underwater. The idea was that all this technical, expensive, complicated, specialized, gear and diving procedures are just necessary pains that allow you to enter the world that you seek. The safe cold water divers are all caught up in gear and procedure, once that is down, and only then, do we seek our bliss.
Quite a while ago, Marcia kidded back and forth with me about wanting a better flash for her camera. She was going to ship it to me so I could deliver it and then go diving in her backyard. The camera rig I saw being removed from the ocean was quite a piece. Nobody mentioned that. Talk about overtasked! A ill fitting suit, improper undergarments, no professional guidance with anything, a monster camera rig, a new cold water dive site, figuring everything out for herself, running out of time with respect to what she wanted to accomplish with her dives, nobody nearby, please feel free to jump in and add to the list
The red flag, No, OF ALL THE RED FLAGS, THE BIGGEST RED FLAG was her dealing with the new drysuit issues on ScubaBoard up to the day that she got onto the plane. There was a complete lack of understanding with respect to putting together a balanced rig that would keep her warm, fit, safe, and underwater for her planned dive goal and dive time.
Go back to her very last post to us. I was trying to get her to layer. Layering takes much more time to dial in than just pulling on a big bulky fleece. She said she didnt want a bulky suit so she wouldnt be a sail or get caught in current. Truth seems to be that she ended up with a suit that was too small and had inadequate room for undergarments.
So how did she end up in Botany Bay in 15°C water? She just booked a trip and met up with dive buddies. Who mentored Marcia from her warm water roots into coldwater diving? IMHO, it looks like she tried to garner enough information from us on the board to be able to throw together a cold water drysuit day pass. It will be OK, its not deep, Ill just tough it out.
It didnt work. Last time I tried to tough it out while being unprepared, I had my ass handed back to me by Doppler. The difference was, I was in a closely supervised class.
This isnt about the buddy system, gear, or anything else. It is about lack of common sense.
Is this how we care for and welcome tropical divers to our world?
There is a real lesson to be learned here, and it isnt just about how to properly gear up or what buddy procedure to use. It is all about manning up and dropping the loosey-goosey solo **** because she was an experienced dive professional. We need to see her for who she really was, a wonderfully inexperienced coldwater diver that set herself up to get hurt or killed.
Marcia ran a dive operation in Phuket, Thailand. In her off times, she loved to correspond with other divers via PMs. All you know who you are. And all of you that know her for who she truly was, also know the bitter pain of her loss.
It is 3:20 AM here in Delaware, the board is going down shortly for daily maintenance. I think Ill give Marcia a shout when it comes back up
Marcia was a highly accomplished tropical diver. She was a capable cold water diver in a wetsuit. Never forget one thing, why she splashed . For her, it was all about observing and photographing her beloved sea creatures.
Cold water diving is perfect for gear freaks, like me. I enjoy the challenge of adjusting to the situation at hand. I like to progress scientifically and systematically. Extend my range... None of this held any interest for Marcia. Doppler once said something to me that really stuck. And let the source, himself, correct me if I misquote, but it was something like I wish they made a pill to correct vision and allow me to breathe and be warm underwater. The idea was that all this technical, expensive, complicated, specialized, gear and diving procedures are just necessary pains that allow you to enter the world that you seek. The safe cold water divers are all caught up in gear and procedure, once that is down, and only then, do we seek our bliss.
Quite a while ago, Marcia kidded back and forth with me about wanting a better flash for her camera. She was going to ship it to me so I could deliver it and then go diving in her backyard. The camera rig I saw being removed from the ocean was quite a piece. Nobody mentioned that. Talk about overtasked! A ill fitting suit, improper undergarments, no professional guidance with anything, a monster camera rig, a new cold water dive site, figuring everything out for herself, running out of time with respect to what she wanted to accomplish with her dives, nobody nearby, please feel free to jump in and add to the list
The red flag, No, OF ALL THE RED FLAGS, THE BIGGEST RED FLAG was her dealing with the new drysuit issues on ScubaBoard up to the day that she got onto the plane. There was a complete lack of understanding with respect to putting together a balanced rig that would keep her warm, fit, safe, and underwater for her planned dive goal and dive time.
Go back to her very last post to us. I was trying to get her to layer. Layering takes much more time to dial in than just pulling on a big bulky fleece. She said she didnt want a bulky suit so she wouldnt be a sail or get caught in current. Truth seems to be that she ended up with a suit that was too small and had inadequate room for undergarments.
So how did she end up in Botany Bay in 15°C water? She just booked a trip and met up with dive buddies. Who mentored Marcia from her warm water roots into coldwater diving? IMHO, it looks like she tried to garner enough information from us on the board to be able to throw together a cold water drysuit day pass. It will be OK, its not deep, Ill just tough it out.
It didnt work. Last time I tried to tough it out while being unprepared, I had my ass handed back to me by Doppler. The difference was, I was in a closely supervised class.
This isnt about the buddy system, gear, or anything else. It is about lack of common sense.
Is this how we care for and welcome tropical divers to our world?
There is a real lesson to be learned here, and it isnt just about how to properly gear up or what buddy procedure to use. It is all about manning up and dropping the loosey-goosey solo **** because she was an experienced dive professional. We need to see her for who she really was, a wonderfully inexperienced coldwater diver that set herself up to get hurt or killed.
Marcia ran a dive operation in Phuket, Thailand. In her off times, she loved to correspond with other divers via PMs. All you know who you are. And all of you that know her for who she truly was, also know the bitter pain of her loss.
It is 3:20 AM here in Delaware, the board is going down shortly for daily maintenance. I think Ill give Marcia a shout when it comes back up
Thanks its good to know I am not being totally silly here. I haven't dived single aluminium yet as I am working on twin steels for a trip I intent to do end of the month. My wing has 50 lb lift so no issues there, however if I ever have to use independent aluminium twins I have no idea how I would carry the weight. I suspect something in the order of 45 lb or so if near empty cylinders with this dry suit. Totally impractical.
For me with this dry suit ( which I do like very much), its twin steel manifold or nothing. I would also love a SS back plate but that means 2 harnesses as I use aluminium back plate for overseas travel. That's not going to happen, minister for finance won't allow a BCD, 3 wetsuits, dry suit and 2 harnesses to boot.
---------- Post added October 12th, 2013 at 08:32 PM ----------
This incident for me is a time of immense sadness. I do not know Marcia at all, and yet I find this such a sad time. A beautiful person who clearly loved diving who dies from a "potentially" avoidable accident. In the prime of her life and now gone. May you rest in peace, and many sad condolences to your family and friends here.
"Live every day to the full, as you never know when you will be asked to leave"
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