Scuba Death Leads to Lawsuit Settlement Against American Medical Response

[H2Andy]

When I see a post like this for a historical event I try to think of why it was posted. I couldn't see why; espceially when folks took off on the EMS rules rather than the actions of those particular responders.

well, this thread has shown me that if paramedics in an ambulance are not qualified to stop CPR, neither am i

so ... i will continue to administer CPR until relieved by the ambulance guys and won't stop even if i think "there's no hope"

i'm not qualified to make that call

it's a good lesson

 

[james croft]

Why so touchy? Have I tread on something I ought not have? I did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings.:huh:

This happened a couple of years ago but is news to me. Often incidents such as this are hushed up or only come to light after depositions are given or a case is heard in court. Normally that takes a couple of years.

I suspect that those so-called medics did not volunteered they were screwing around with heroin. Someone had to pry that loose from someone who did not want to give it up. I betcha this info just became public. I bet someone got immunity from prosecution for diming out their buddy. Let's analyze it and learn from it.

Thalassamania is letting us know about why we should demand dedicated civil servant EMS folks instead of minimum wage wanna-bees.

 

[Thalassamania]

Thalassamania is letting us know about why we should demand dedicated civil servant EMS folks instead of minimum wage wanna-bees.

No. I know nothing about specific about EMS and have even fewer opinions (beyond the obvious) on the subject.

 

[ItsBruce]

Stand by for hijack:

I don't know what the settlement amount was, but my guess is that it was quite low. I have grave doubts that the ambulance company even being liable under California law. I can't fathom how the family could prove that but for the ambulance company's negligence the diver would have survived.

Beyond that, there is binding precedent that says that unless you (1) specifically undertake a duty, e.g. start CPR, or (2) act in such a way that someone else does not render aid, you don't have a duty to render aid. In the key case on the subject, paramedics arrived on the scene of a shooting and then decided not to render aid to the victim who died of the wounds. The court held that the paramedics were not liable because they did not have a duty to render aid. Really.

 

[james croft]

I'm not a lawyer, but most entities such as localities that may have immunity may only have it except when there is gross negligence. I suspect using heroin may constitute gross negligence. If I was a judge or jury I wouls snap it off in them. Not to mention punitive damages.
I mean, I can't believe someone can be on heroin and work in the EMS field, let alone two of them at the same time. They aren't even abusing prescribed meds like morphine sulphate. Yeah, I would sue them big time. And lock em up.

 

[ParamedicDiver1]

Just thought I'd add my $0.02. My experience is varied. I have been a Paramedic for the last 14 years and an ER Nurse for the last 3 years. I have worked for private services, county agencies, and the Great State of Texas. Each place had different protocols and one agency I worked for had "Field Termination" protocols. This was a rural service where transport times to local EDs could be over an hour. There were several specific requirements for terminating CPR/ACLS in the field. A couple of the requirements were: 1) Pt in persistant asystole (flatline) for 20 minutes, 2) Advanced airway in place, 3) Minimum of 3rd round of medication given, 4) Pt not suffering from hypothermia. There were a couple of more but these were the major ones. Bottom line there is little to nothing a Doctor would do during a CPR that a Paramedic doesn't and when I teach ACLS (that is the class that certifies one in CPR management) there are Doctors, Nurses, and Paramedics that all have to pass the same test.

Private EMS services are becoming more common place in handling 911 response areas. As long as they do a quality job, I have no problem with this. In fact some of the best services I have worked for were private services...course they were non-profit organizations too.

BTW...here is a link to a very good article concerning this event in CA.

http://www.emsvillage.com/articles/article.cfm?id=1832

 

[fisherdvm]

A couple of the requirements were: 1) Pt in persistant asystole (flatline) for 20 minutes, 2) Advanced airway in place, 3) Minimum of 3rd round of medication given, 4) Pt not suffering from hypothermia. There were a couple of more but these were the major ones.

That is nice information for me to know. I am a physician, but certainly not well versed in ER medicine.

 

[fisherdvm]

when I teach ACLS (that is the class that certifies one in CPR management) there are Doctors, Nurses, and Paramedics that all have to pass the same test.

Not to slight yourself, nor any other medics, us doctors do have to take the same ACLS courses, and we usually just find the most convenience and cheapest to renew our ACLS certificate.

However, since I've been certified long before they allow non MD/DO's to teach the courses, I can tell you , clearly, the quality of the instruction has dropped tremendously since non physicians are taking over the teaching.

Both the RN instructors and paramedic instructors have shown very poor skill in the didactic and the practical sessions. It is a huge disappointment from the days that ER doctors taught the classes.

An ER physician does not have to take ACLS - as they live it. You will not find an ER doctor taking your ACLS class. They do have to take yearly exam for their board certification. An MD is a worthless degree when it comes to emergency medicine... I would trust an experienced paramedic to run a code before I would.... But an ER doctor, in my opinion, should be the final authority to end a code.

I am not slighting RN's or paramedics at all... We can never approach the skills of an ER physician, and it is unfortunate that the ER docs are not teaching ACLS like they used to (they cost more).

 

[james croft]

BTW...here is a link to a very good article concerning this event in CA.

http://www.emsvillage.com/articles/article.cfm?id=1832

Man, reading that makes me ill. What a screwed up loser and how screwed up that contracted EMS outfit is for keeping someone like that.

 

[yangnome]

I find it surprising that Monterey would subcontract 911 service to a private company, obviously they did. Do they still?

Yes, Monterey County did and still does contract EMS service. Westmed is the current lowest-bidder that owns the contract, and the county just had to bail them out (IIRC to the sum of 1 million) and extend their response time. Local FD still responds to each medical call as well and routinely (at least in Monterey) beats the ambulance to the scene.