scopalomine patch vs. pills

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I love my patch and wouldn't give it up for anything. :D I've taken it down to 133 feet and felt no difference in how narc'ed (or not) I was than without it. I think it's like any medication though, it can affect people differently and it's really important to test it at home prior to going on vacation or getting on a boat.

The only side effect I get from the patch is a dry mouth. Contrast that to full blown panic attacks that Dramamine gives me....not something I would want to happen at ANY depth!

Oh yeah, and I do see people lose their patches all the time diving. I simply cut off the sticky ends of a waterproof bandaid and stick my patch on just a little more. Works great, haven't lost one yet.
 
Be aware that there is 2 different kinds of Dramine, the original which is a 4 hr drug and Dramine II (same as Bonine) which is a 24 hr drug. I find that 1 Bonine (or DMII) the night before the dive and one the morning of the dive does great for me. If I am diving on mulitiple days I just keep up the one at night, one in the morning routine every day I am diving. The original 4 hr DM makes me almost as sick as the waves.
I have also found a cheap alternative to Bonine(DMII). Some pharmacies (mostly around boating areas) carry the same active ingredient in 100 ct bottles for about the same price as the 8ct pack of Bonine (DMII), around $5. Some places keep it behind the counter but it does not require a prescription.
 
Ishie:
Can you give the gist? I don't get that mag.


Side effects such as accomondation (blurred vision) bradycardia (slow heartrate) or reduced salivation are very much a side effect.....Technical divers need to take into consideration, possible side effects of scopalamine are Disorientation, anxiety, and hallucinations. He recommends treatment to start 4-6 hours before starting the trip, and removing the patches 12 hours before diving. Preferably, do not use these patches at all, and stick to antihistimine drugs of newer types. Ask your doctor. He is a deep tech diver, and this is based on his own experiences with the use of scopalimine while diving. .....Interesting....
 
Hi MudChick,

Here is a brief item on the topic:

Scopalamine—Pill (Scopace) vs Patch (Transderm Scop)
http://www.awoosh.com/Doc Vikingo's Resource Page/Scopace Patch.htm

A more extensive discussion of the matter appears in the Mar/Apr '04 issue of DAN's "Alert Diver" and is reprinted below with permission:

"Scopace Tablets

Here's An Alternative to "The Patch"
for Motion Sickness Relief

By Renée Duncan, Editor

We've all heard about "the patch for divers." In fact, we've profiled it a couple of times in the pages of Alert Diver.* And it works beautifully for many divers and travelers who experience motion sickness.

I'm one of those unfortunates who, given a good whiff of diesel and a quick view of a rolling horizon, will be feeding the fish off almost any boat unlucky enough to have me. Actually, I usually take it in stride, but my involuntary actions have dismayed some of my fellow dive travelers at times.

Unhappily, "the patch" is just too strong for me. I'm on the small side, 5 feet 2 inches (1.57 meters) tall, maybe 110 pounds (49.5 kilograms) without my gear. And putting on a patch practically guarantees I won't recall much of my dive, flight or boat ride (short-term memory loss is one of the side effects).

It doesn't have this effect on all small persons; and, by the same token, it may affect larger persons just as intensely - or it may not be enough. As with many medications, it simply works on each of us individually, and some days (and dosages) can be tougher than others.

What to do? Well, I've pondered. Fed some fish. Postponed dives. Or gone diving off the other side of the boat after a good spew.

Then I heard about a pill I could take for motion sickness. The best thing about it is that I can keep my dosages low rather than enduring the fixed dosage of a patch. And although, I haven't had motion sickness in a while, I almost wish I could get sick again, just to try it.

Divers and travelers who suffer from motion sickness, you have a choice: you can use the scopolamine patch or take it in pill form. For many folks, the pill is welcome news. Scopace, a medication for motion sickness, is available through your doctor - in 0.4 mg tablets.

Scopace contains scopolamine hydrobromide, described by the American Hospital Formulary Service (a drug information reference from the American Society of Health-System Pharmacists) as the "single most effective medicine to prevent nausea and vomiting induced by motion."

So, how do these tablets compare to the patch? To begin with, both have scopolamine, a drug well known for its ability to ease motion sickness.

Dosing Flexibility

The patch and the pill differ, however, in dosing flexibility. The patch delivers a fixed dose to all persons who don it. And therein lies the problem. Because a fixed dose is formulated for individuals of average weight, it may be excessive for smaller individuals and not enough for larger persons. This means a small person could encounter side effects from absorbing too much of the drug, while larger individuals may still get motion sickness because they're getting insufficient amounts.

With tablets, you can adjust the dosage to the lowest level you find effective. Granted, this may mean a couple of trial-and-error runs, but it beats the dizziness and blurring of vision if you're sensitive to the patch.

Skin Considerations

Then, there's the issue of skin. Topical absorption of a medication - such as what you find in a scopolamine patch - is dependent on certain skin characteristics. These factors include skin thickness, patch adhesion (that's why instructions tell you to apply the patch to clean skin) and blood circulation within the skin.

If the skin is too thick, the medication may penetrate too slowly. With hairy or sweaty skin, the patch may not adhere properly. If circulation is poor or if blood flow is shunted away from the skin (this can happens in cold conditions or during episodes of extreme nausea), drug levels may remain diminished because of reduced drug passage into the blood.

Ingesting the Tablets

Next, there's speed: in order to work, tablets have to melt. If you wait until you're already ill, you may get quicker relief with the patch.

Quality guidelines published by the United States Pharmacopoeia, an organization that works closely with the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the pharmaceutical industry, and the health professions to establish authoritative drug standards, specify that scopolamine tablets must disintegrate within 15 minutes. According to Craig R. Sherman, M.D., Medical Director, Hope Pharmaceuticals (the manufacturer of Scopace), ongoing testing confirms that Scopace tablets meet or exceed this standard.

Whichever method you prefer, remember to dose yourself at least an hour before you dive, travel or go boating.

Side Effects

The incidence of side effects associated with the two dosage forms of scopolamine can differ. If you have experienced any negative effects with the patch, you may want to give the pills a try, or vice versa.

The primary side effect of scopolamine tablets at the intended doses is reduced salivation, says the manufacturer. That's dry mouth in diving terms, and it's not fun. But it's not dangerous, either. More serious side effects can always happen with any medication. The manufacturer points out, however, that the more serious side effects with the tablets tend to be infrequent because you can adjust your dose to the lowest level you need.

Another consideration is the duration of possible side effects. If a side effect occurs after you ingest a tablet, you can suspend subsequent doses while your body metabolizes the pill. In contrast, side effects associated with topically applied medicine may be prolonged after it is removed because of continued absorption into the blood from the skin.

To reinforce the drug's safety, Hope Pharmaceuticals also provided this study result for the scopolamine tablet:

A study conducted for NASA evaluated whether oral scopolamine impacted operational proficiency. Scopolamine was tested in two doses - 0.25 mg and 0.5 mg. The researchers concluded that neither dose produced any loss of proficiency performing selected tasks. Furthermore, the incidence of drowsiness and blurred vision associated with the drug did not exceed that associated with placebo.

Just like the scopolamine patch, Scopace can cause inability to urinate in men with enlarged prostate glands, and can exacerbate certain types of glaucoma (excessive pressure in the eye). It can also cause drowsiness, which could be dangerous while performing certain activities such as driving a car.

It's Your Trip

No one wants motion sickness to spoil a trip. At the same time, you don't want to over-medicate yourself: it's just as bad. If you have a tried-and-true method of dealing with motion sickness, stick with it. If you're not happy with your present solution, perhaps you'd like to discuss a prescription for Scopace with your doctor.

For other, non-medical ways to prevent motion sickness, see Dan Orr's July / August 2003 Incident Insights report on "Mal de Mer."

Pay attention to what your body's telling you about motion sickness or drugs."

Helpful?

Regards,

DocVikingo
 
A poster states: "Be aware that there is 2 different kinds of Dramine (sic), the original which is a 4 hr drug and Dramine II (sic) (same as Bonine) which is a 24 hr drug."

There are two chemically different kinds of Dramamine.

The first is Dramamine®Original which contains 50 mg of dimenhydrinate per tablet. Directions for its use are: "adults and children 12 years and over 1 to 2 tablets every 4-6 hours; not more than 8 tablets in 24 hours, or as directed by a doctor."

The second is Dramamine®Less Drowsy (aka Dramamine II) which contains 25 mg of meclizine per tablet. Directions for its use are: "adults and children 12 years and over: 1 to 2 tablets once daily, or as directed by a doctor." Meclizine also is the active ingredient in Bonine®, Antivert® and Marezine®.

The effects dimenhydrinate (e.g., Dramamine®Original, Triptone®, Gravol®) at depth have been studied and the findings are of concern. As such, it's use during scuba is questionable:

The Psychometric and Cardiac Effects of Dimenhydrinate in the Hyperbaric Environment
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/409610_print

The effects of meclizine (e.g., Bonine®, Antivert® and Marezine®) have not been studied at depth, but topside effects can include sleepiness and adverse impact on psychomotor performance.

Regards,

DocVikingo
 
A poster states: "At depth, the pressures (my theory) began forcing a higher dosage of the medication through the patch" and "During a dive, not only can the patch come off, but depths and pressures will cause the patch to basically overdose you. That was my experience with it. Your mileage may vary...."

There is no compelling reason why depth alone would cause a properly used scopolamine patch drug delivery system to behave differently than was intended by the manufacturer.

The notion of depth resulting in "overdosing" from a patch simply has no apparent basis in fact. If anything, the decrease in blood circulation in and near the skin that often occurs with submergence of the body in water might be expected to decrease absorption and circulation of the medication.

Now, one might argue that the effects of scopolamine theoretically could be additive with those of nitrogen narcosis or otherwise potentiated by the effects of depth, but studies to date really do not support this concern (e.g., "Drugs Divers Take," May '06 Undercurrent).

Of course symptoms and signs resulting from other conditions could be misinterpreted as "overdosing" on a patch used as directed. Some that pop immediately to mind are: improper use of the patch, use in combination with certain other drugs, dehydration, unrelated illnesses, diver panic and nitrogen narcosis.

But, in any event these are entirely different issues than overdosing secondary to depth driving more drug from the patch into the body.

Regards,

DocVikingo
 
Interesting, Doc. I had no panic or fear issues at all. I suspect that it was narcosis, after ruling out everything else. The dive itself was to a max depth of 80fsw. I used the patch according to the directions, was well hydrated, rested, and had no illnesses or other issues. I'm not a doctor. All I know is that I felt pretty bad, and when I came up at the end of the dive and found that I'd lost the patch, I was glad that it was gone. I haven't used it since, and have never felt as badly as I did, on that dive that I used the patch. Since then, I've had dives to 130fsw, quarry dives with near zero viz, deep drift dives, etc. No problem at all.
 
Hi Fish_Whisper,

It is good that you now are able to enjoy scuba without a scopolamine patch or other antimotion sickness medication. When they are unnecessary the fewer drugs of this sort onboard the body, both topside and underwater, the better.

It certainly is possible that you had an adverse reaction to the scopolamine which manifested itself underwater. But, as was discusssed, it is extremely unlikely that this was caused by the patch malfunctioning solely as a result of depth.

Be well.

DocVikingo
 
Thanks again, Doc. Yeah, I seem to have finally got my sea legs, so I'm good to go. :)

I didn't feel any malaise, nausea, or headache with the patch until I got to depth, which is why I theorized as I did. Thanks for helping me figure it out. Of my 32 dives, that was the only "creepy" dive I've had, and it's been on my mind.

Kudos to you.
 
Thanks for posting the info. I'll definitely give the pill a try if I can, for one reason, I'm always open to new ideas on keeping myself less sick, since even with the patch, it barely holds me. On a bad swell day, the patch will essentially keep me functional enough to be able to get my gear together so I can get in the water.

Penetration diving isn't something I'm really pursuing in the near future, and that would cause different considerations, such as planning in such a way to have NO medication, if possible. I'm aware that one of the potential side effects of the patch is aural and visual hallucinations, but from what I understand, that hits the people affected by those side effects whereever they are. I was on a dive boat where one of the DMs was joking about watching the people on the patch chasing butterflies.

In my experience, once I'm sick, pretty much nothing short of ODing on Dramamine and passing out (did that when I was 11), or getting off the boat will help, including putting on the patch then.

Except for the dry mouth (which isn't that bad, certainly not like when I was diving with rented regs), and the very slight blurred vision, I've never seen increased symptoms. Now that I think about it, I've done dives to 94 feet and 90 feet, and felt nothing in the way of narcosis... no dizziness, no short term memory loss.

My main risk with seasickness is the seasickness itself. I'm extremely comfortable IN the water, and extremely uncomfortable on top of it, which may cause me to forego proper buddy checks and other key points in favor of getting to the bottom, which doesn't move. Once there, I'll typically sit on a rock (I'm in Monterey, not near coral reefs before anyone squawks) for about 5 minutes with my eyes closed, and then have a nice dive.
 

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