Save yourselves, it's too late for me (help needed)

[BSea]

WOW! I didn't think a double hose thread would be this popular. This is scary since the price on double hoses on ebay keeps getting higher & higher. At least that's the way it seems to me.

I too was bitten with the bug. In fact I've wanted a double hose for years, but until I discovered ebay, I could never find 1 for sale. Now I have 2 (A 58-59 DAAM, and a Snark III Super), and still shopping. My regular diving has been putting a crimp in may shopping. Maybe I need to dive less to save money for my double hose addiction. Hmmmm ...... No, there is my Birthday & Christmas coming, so I can always put them on my wish list.

On the no BC thing. I was talking to one of my buddies a few days ago, & we were discussing the no BC thing also. We were talking about lake diving, and the fact if you were weighted properly, you really didn't need a BC. I was saying that when I was certified (1977), we only used a vest. It had no power inflation, only a tube that you could use orally, or an emergency CO2. It was hard to vent, and pain to use. So, we never used them. We put them on, but they were kind of like snorkels, just something there just in case. Shortly after I was certified, they came out with the power inflator on the horse collar BC's. So I probably made fewer than 10 dives with the vest.

Back to the vintage regs. I've only made a few dives with mine, but I really enjoy using them.

 

[Hammerhead]

More gems there - thanks again.

Just checked my wing, embarrassed to admit it, but until Nemrod mentioned it I'd never really looked that closely. The inflator / wing connection is not centralised.
It's on the left shoulder, easy reach right handed.

Crotch and shoulder straps are standard on the Pioneer - the crotch strap ends in a loop that tou thread the waist belt through, so all OK there.

Basically (and not patting myself on the back too much) most of the skills and such suggested so far are things I try to do anyway. Point by point: -

There is no very little air in my wing during a dive. None by the end. I can adjust my necessary weighting in my head for the tank I use from practise.

I use minimal weighting but retain the light BP. I'd rather have to ditch a belt to get up than "use" the BP to get me down.

@ Luis the Genesis Cayman may be cheap, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. No frill is the best description I'd give it, which - as we're discussing here - is not necessarily a bad thing...

BTW, still after a bit of advice as to which of my old single hose first stages I could nab the long yoke off (calypso or conshelf, but anyone know which model?).

My plan at present is to keep the BP/W intact and try it like that. No inflator required, I can manage that myself, but I will attach the SPG to the banjo and keep the DMs happy with an octo off the hookah.

Keep 'em coming and thanks, fellers!

 

[Luis H]

True and that's often misunderstood. I think John was addressing a different issue. I know I can compensate for the 6 lb change with my lungs. OTOH, I wouldn't be able to compensate for a much larger change if I were using a larger tank. I believe that's what he was discussing, not the fact it's high pressure, but that some high pressure tanks hold so much more air.

Hi Walter

I am aware that John knows what he is talking about. I know John well from VSS. My clarification was mostly for the benefit of the general population.


Yeah… you Florida guys. I like to see trying to compensate for 20 lbs of neoprene compression in a wetsuit (even my drysuit is 7 mm neoprene).

True, but some captains, if they know you, will let you dive pure vintage.

Maybe we need to talk to you about the next Sand Dog IV trip, or related dive trips.

 

[Luis H]

Crotch and shoulder straps are standard on the Pioneer - the crotch strap ends in a loop that tou thread the waist belt through, so all OK there.

If you are using a weight belt I still recommend looking at attaching the front loop of the crotch strap to the weight belt. If you release the weight belt I think it is less chance of entanglement.

@ Luis the Genesis Cayman may be cheap, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. No frill is the best description I'd give it, which - as we're discussing here - is not necessarily a bad thing...

Thanks Larry
You got my point exactly, and I wasn’t very clear.
I did have to modify it so it worked more like a backpack harness, with a BC bag attached, but it was easy.

BTW, still after a bit of advice as to which of my old single hose first stages I could nab the long yoke off (calypso or conshelf, but anyone know which model?).

You may already have a long yoke in your DA. When I have a chance I will measure the length of both and post the dimensions.

Most of the later Conshelf yokes were threaded. This will not worked unless they are machined.

At Vintage Double Hose you can download break down parts list for your DA (and many other DH regulators). He also has vintage US Divers repair manuals on CD were you can compare the part number to see if it is the same. I will try to look that up for you when I have more time.

Which Calypso do you have? I can only think of the one with the fix yoke (early 1970’s), which is obviously not usable.

My plan at present is to keep the BP/W intact and try it like that. No inflator required, I can manage that myself, but I will attach the SPG to the banjo and keep the DMs happy with an octo off the hookah.

Once you have a hookah LP adapter, adding a three way for an inflator is easy. Look at the pictures in the other post.

 

[Nemrod]

The Calypso long yoke should work. I have one on my DA and took the short yoke from the DA and installed on the Calypso since it has a HP port. The Calypso from around 1966 is the one I am talking about. I know it will work because as I have said, that is what I did for my DA.

As Luis as said, you might already have a long yoke, some later DAs did have a long yoke I do believe. The difference in the length of the throat is obvious.

I am excied for you that you fellows are discovring these things. I suggest before you take your trip that you get it all together and do a shallow dive in a controlled place such as a swimming pool preferably so that you can sort things out.

VDH and VSS, I am pretty sure can supply a long standard duty yoke. The heavy yokes are more rare and with some valves they will still not accept a banjo without machine work (ok--file and Dremal)

BSea, you need to come to Wazee. The vest you mention was not intended as a BC. In the early days the Mae West CO2 vests were used by some divers for emergency surface floatation---not bouyancy compensation since there was no way to vent the air backout. Shortly thereafter there were some horsecollar BCs with manual inflation and then the power inflators arrived and often with a kit to retrofit to the manual style BC. Many early BCs and even jackets retained a CO2 cylinder for emergency surface floatation. N

 

[Nemrod]

"True, but some captains, if they know you, will let you dive pure vintage."

Well, maybe next year you can set that up for the vintage dive trip, SDIV, perhaps. We discussed all that for months leading up to SDIII and were not successful in finding anyone so pointers from you next year would be hugely useful.

When I use a weightbelt, sometimes I don't need one, I put it on last but there are conditions and rigs that might find it wise to set the weightbelt up inside the harness such that it cannot fall free by accident. I don't know much abou drysuit diving though I have done it a few times. I am slowly looking into getting one of those DUI 30/30 trilam drysuits.

I don't have any formulas or fancy figur'n, I just look at where I am going, what I am using/wearing and pick my needed weight based on that--often it is no weight.

Going way back, the ability to hold a safety stop for extended periods was not the big deal it is now, people did not do safety stops so being slightly bouyant at the end of the dive was no big deal. I still set up that way--even if I have a BC and just hold my position in the safety stop by finning. If I am doing deco or expect a long stop then I set up accordingly.

N

 

[Walter]

I'll ask, but unless they know each diver personally, I don't think it's going to happen.

A BC is almost a necessity with diving a thick wet suit. You can use drop weights, but a BC is a better solution.

 

[Luis H]

The inside length of the long yoke is around 1.54", for the short yoke the inside length is around 1.36".

I hope this helps.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Just to clear things up a bit from my last post, when I was discussing the diving cylinders used today, I wasn't talking about aluminum verses steel, but of what is now known as HP cylinders (above 3000 psi) verses the older cylinders which used 2250 psi, or even 3000 psi. The buoyance variability was different with the lower pressure cylinders than with the HP cylinders of today. Because of this, we were not so concerned with buoyancy compensation due to the cylinder's buoyancy, but we were compensating for the loss of buoyancy of the wet suit in cold water. In warm water, we used minimal gear, and so did not need to compensate for the suit's loss, as there was little buoyancy associated with the suit in warm water. My 1/4 inch wet suit (0.25 inches = 6.35 millimeters), in sea water, used to require 22 pounds for me to dive it (now it's a bit more). Most of that buoyance was lost at 33 feet. In freshwater, it was more dramatic, as I would use 16 pounds for a full wet suit in 37 degree F water, and be able to take the entire weight belt off at 33 feet and swim neutral in the water.

In the older days, we swam where we wanted to go, up or down, or horizontally. Now, it is done with the BC for up and down, and we are being sold propulsion devices for horizontal swimming.

Today, I had a great "vintage" dive with a single hose regulator (Calypso piston first stage and metal second stage from the 1980s). I used the J-reserve from the valve, and dove my Para-Sea BC without inflation. I was testing some propulsion concepts for underwater swimming, and used a wet suit top with a hood in 63 degree water. I had a great dive, swam hard, and surprised a steelhead in mid-water. I also swam with smallmouth bass, and stayed with them. I swam until I felt the restriction of the J-reserve valve, pulled the rod, surfaced and switched to my snorkel. I then swam to the rocks, found a good exit point, and got out.

As I was walking back to the car, the LDS owner and a fellow diver were coming down the road, each in full dry suits. They were pretty warm, but it looked at least like they had not up on much undergarmets. I talked with them as they suited up about ten minutes later. They were in the water, going over the dive, and getting their gear together. They dove with full dry suits, including their hood and thin gloves.

Another set of divers were preparing to dive as I left, and one was getting into a full dry suit with undergarmets for a cold-water dive. This in 63 degree water! She needed assistance to get her boots on over the socks she had. I was there about 25 minutes, waiting for my swim suit to dry off (I forgot a towel), and she was still dressing.

The point here is that it looks like today's divers, especially those with dry suits, are not as flexible to water conditions as the vintage divers of ol'. It's pretty easy to take two weights off a weight belt, hop into only the wet suit top, and wear a hood if it's cool (which I did today), then get into the water. And it doesn't take over a half hour to get into that gear. I really look forward to these dives in warmer water, where I don't need to get completely geared up. That others feel the need to get into their complete gear for each dive may be one of the reasons that diving is not as popular as it could be.

John

 

[Hammerhead]

AARRGGHH!!

Help needed, I ordered the Octopus Adapter (Brass one was the only one in stock) off vintagedoublehose.com, but somehow their replies got nabbed by my spam filter, so I didn't find out until today that they can't ship to me in time for my upcoming holiday (2 weeks tomorrow).

The banjo's already here, but I definitely need the Octo adaptor.

Is there anyone out there who could lend me this piece? I'd pay costs, costs plus, anything you ask (barring only bizarre sexual favours, which I'll think about & let you know).

Please, please, if anyone can help just drop me a PM. I've been looking forward to this for a long while and the disappointment is huge.