Save our Jewfish, aka Goliath Grouper news...

[CuzzA]

My attached graphic of the data supports the decline as collected by FIU. The following story featuring Mote Marine Laboratory is very good. I have also volunteered with them on Goliath research for many years. Here is the story:

Huge groupers, the joy of Florida divers, are now 'vulnerable'

Huge groupers, the joy of Florida divers, are now 'vulnerable'

Any good fisherman knows fish have fins and they use them. Of all people, Tony, you should know this.

This may be the survey where they only counted one side of the wreck.

So where did the other 30 go that Mote is now claiming they are in decline? Illegal human harvest? Maybe. Shark predation? More likely. Or half of the smaller ones realized this site can't support all of us, not enough food, habitat, and too much aggression and we need to find new homes? Most likely. Goliath grouper, like most bethnic fish are territorial. Furthermore, despite being a bethnic species, grouper are migratory.

BTW, I hope you are recovering well and on the mend.

 

[tursiops]

This may be the survey where they only counted one side of the wreck.

LOL. Repeating hearsay doesn't make it true.

 

[tridacna]

If this is even mildly controversial, why not defer to the less aggressive approach and allow fish stocks to recover? The alternative, if wrong, brings them closer to possible extinction. I’m not sure why there is such a yearning from spearos to hunt them so desperately.

 

[CuzzA]

If this is even mildly controversial, why not defer to the less aggressive approach and allow fish stocks to recover? The alternative, if wrong, brings them closer to possible extinction. I’m not sure why there is such a yearning from spearos to hunt them so desperately.

Spearfishing will never be an allowable harvest method ever again. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I advocate for them to be speared. I'm on record here in the past stating I don't want the optics. There's already enough misinformation and illogical beliefs regarding the difference between spearing and hook and line.

It's actually quite comical. Hook and line is often viewed as better than spearing. Meanwhile, hook and line is indiscrimate. Bycatch and undersized barotrauma mortality waste fish. Shark predation waste both legal and undersized fish. Hook and line pollute the reefs with terminal tackle and finally, it requires harvesting of bait.

Spearing is selectively targeting legal, correctly sized and in season species. There's no pollution and no bait. Yet, there's a public perception spearing is worse than hook and line. It's just illogical.

That said, because of illogical thinking, I'll reiterate I don't support spearing jewfish.

 

[tursiops]

If this is even mildly controversial, why not defer to the less aggressive approach and allow fish stocks to recover? The alternative, if wrong, brings them closer to possible extinction. I’m not sure why there is such a yearning from spearos to hunt them so desperately.

Spearfishing will never be an allowable harvest method ever again. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I advocate for them to be speared. I'm on record here in the past stating I don't want the optics. There's already enough misinformation and illogical beliefs regarding the difference between spearing and hook and line.

It's actually quite comical. Hook and line is often viewed as better than spearing. Meanwhile, hook and line is indiscrimate. Bycatch and undersized barotrauma mortality waste fish. Shark predation waste both legal and undersized fish. Hook and line pollute the reefs with terminal tackle and finally, it requires harvesting of bait.

Spearing is selectively targeting legal, correctly sized and in season species. There's no pollution and no bait. Yet, there's a public perception spearing is worse than hook and line. It's just illogical.

That said, because of illogical thinking, I'll reiterate I don't support spearing jewfish.

He never said spearing....he said spearo. Maybe try reading before jumping to argue about something?

 

[CuzzA]

LOL. Repeating hearsay doesn't make it true.

LOL. Well, they actually admit they're overestimating harvest number by 30 to 40 percent.

I take it you missed the latest marine news this month.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports...tdoors-column-noaa-fisheries-survey-20230917-

NOAA Says It Has Been Overestimating Recreational Saltwater Catch by 30 to 40 Percent

A study conducted by NOAA fisheries found that the federal agency has been overestimating recreational catch data by 30 to 40 percent.

www.outdoorlife.com

A recent pilot study conducted by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration revealed the agency’s own data has inflated much of the country’s recreational saltwater fishing catch by 30 to 40 percent. This is the third time in 13 years that serious issues have been uncovered in NOAA’s recreational fishery data program​

Have you not heard Frank's story about when they chartered the Spree for a Red Snapper survey?

They ain't doing science. More likely getting paid by the seafood import lobby.

 

[tridacna]

You would make a great "marine scientist" for the NOAA. Fit right in, and think about all that backdoor money you could put in a shell company from foreign seafood lobbying.

I had no idea about the importation of Goliath Groupers. Which countries export them to us?

 

[Superlyte27]

Your conditions in the gulf may be different, do you have any objective data?

I’ll give you two pieces of data that I participated in…

8 years ago I was a captain for a charter of FWC peeps out of Daytona (Maybe 10 years ago now) where they took 3 of the best commercial fisherman in the state to harvest Red Snapper. In 3 hours, over 100 legal sized red snapper were caught and released. The goal was to get real numbers on what was out there. The report I read stated, “it’s possible the three fisherman were catching the same few fish over and over”. Lol.

20+ years ago, probably closer to 30. I was in a plane counting manatee for the state’s annual numbers. We saw 10’s of thousands. The report showed a fraction of that.

Bureaucracy never dies. Probably because of the way these issues are falsely cultivated.

There’s no doubt to me that Jew Fish are out of control. And they eat EVERYTHING. What’s suffering by JF losing it’s only predator?

 

[CuzzA]

I had no idea about the importation of Goliath Groupers. Which countries export them to us?

The point was the "science" is bs. Doesn't matter the species.

 

[Tony Grogan]

The Gulf habitat is 100x the size of the skinny South Florida Reef track thanks to the huge shelf. Any day of the week, any time of the year, and just about anywhere on the Gulf Coast I could take you and put a diver on Goliath Grouper. I could put you on 1 on a reef ledge or 20 on a wreck. Take your pick.

View attachment 804066

Objective data is important. And that is my point. What the NOAA says is not objective. Mote Marine's latest report is not objective. These people may have marine biology degrees, but they either were taught common core math or they intentionally manipulate data to support their feelings. My data is just as good, if not better than there's, because I can count and we're not diving like they do. On a 4 man one day trip we will dive 24 different sites. You think they're doing that?

Now, I will be the first to say that I don't want open season on jewfish. However, I'm okay with tags at select sites. My money was spent on artificial fishing reefs and when the only species that exists on those sites are jewfish, that is not the intent of the projects.

Pete's nonsense about the current harvest system is illogical. That juvenile slot size fish is found in really skinny water and would be next to impossible to intentionally target. No one is buying those permits and if they do, and actually managed to catch one in the slot, the fish goes to FWC for research. Species are harvested all the time for research. So whether the FWC catches them at cost or they throw an old beat up bone to someone dumb enough to buy a permit and generate some extra revenue for them, it makes no difference.

The irony of a scuba board member buying a permit to not fish it actually does a disservice because they won't have the fish to do research on.

This is completely wrong. The fish does not go to FWC to do research. There are samples taken on the fish that are submitted FWC for genetics research and other reasons. But the fish is actually eaten by the fishermen.

My earlier point was that juvenilte goliaths do not have to be killed to get the same data. The small size chosen was because larger fish have high levels of mercury which are toxic to human beings.

Facts matter and you are not finding them from this source. Casting aspersions against Marine Lab scientists is so wrong. Trying to deny the results that you do not like is not the correct way to apply the scientific method.