Save our Jewfish, aka Goliath Grouper news...

[HalcyonDaze]

Hooked fish, which I would assume is how they were catching them, often empty gut contents, especially freshly swallowed prey, either by choice to fight and spit the baited hook, or due to swim bladder expansion pushing gut contents out. The latter is often noted on ascents even with speared fish. Remora and other species of fish often follow us up muching on the expelled gut contents.

A simple example pulled off the web.

View attachment 804458

Kind of funny under your hypothesis how a) they selectively barf up large reef fish instead of little things like burrfish and crabs, and b) the research data matches what spearfishers were reporting from cleaning their goliath kills back in the day.

 

[Tony Grogan]

Hooked fish, which I would assume is how they were catching them, often empty gut contents, especially freshly swallowed prey, either by choice to fight and spit the baited hook, or due to swim bladder expansion pushing gut contents out. The latter is often noted on ascents even with speared fish. Remora and other species of fish often follow us up muching on the expelled gut contents.

A simple example pulled off the web.

View attachment 804458

CùzzA, the old timers who were spearos of Goliath groupers attest to the fallacy of your dietary claims. The scientists who check diet stomach contents of Goliath have shown the same thing. Here is just one dietary study from Brazil you might want to read. I don't expect you to understand this science or to accept the truth because you have one singular misinformation goal.

Diet and reproduction of the goliath grouper, Epinephelus itajara (Actinopterygii: Perciformes: Serranidae), in Eastern Brazil

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272943285_Diet_and_reproduction_of_the_goliath_grouper_Epinephelus_itajara_Actinopterygii_Perciformes_Serranidae_in_Eastern_Brazil

Background. The goliath grouper, Epinephelus itajara (Lichtenstein, 1822), is the largest Atlantic grouper. It has been the first marine fish subjected to a fishing moratorium in Brazil (since 2002). The aim of this study was to investigate basic biological aspects, particularly the diet and reproduction of this endangered species. We believe that our results, together with information already available in the literature, may be a foundation for new management and conservation strategies for this grouper in Brazil. Materials and Methods. Specimens were obtained from an artisanal fish landings collaborative monitoring program in the cities of Caravelas and Alcobaça, Abrolhos Bank, eastern Brazil. Because of the fishing moratorium, we relied on sporadic incidental captures from fishermen or donation from the law enforcement agencies. Diet and reproduction of the goliath grouper was evaluated based on 34 specimens obtained between May 2005 and September 2010. Results. Body size of 32 females ranged from 27.4 to 150.0 cm total length (TL) (mean 87.4 ± SD 34.8), while size of 2 males were 97.0 and 115.0 cm TL. Of these, 16 specimens (47%) were juveniles. Sex ratio was estimated as 1 : 16 (males to females). Two developing females were recorded, one obtained in February 2006 and another in January 2007. The length of first maturation (L50) for females was estimated at 105.64 cm and the length where 100% of individuals are mature (L100) at 126.0 cm TL. A total of 34 stomachs were analyzed, six of them were empty. Teleosts and decapods dominated the diet. The major food items of mangrove-associated fish were decapods Callinectes sp., while the coral reef-associated fish ingested mainly the boxfish Acanthostracion sp. The most important item for juveniles was Callinectes sp., while Acanthostracion sp. was the most important item for adults. Conclusion. We suggest that the goliath grouper moratorium in Brazil should be maintained for a relatively long time frame—more than four decades.

 

[100days-a-year]

boxfish Acanthostracion sp. The most important item for juveniles was Callinectes sp., while Acanthostracion sp. was the most important item for adults.

 

[Tony Grogan]

That's right Tony. Slow moving fishes like puffers are an easy target for Goliath. That is what we found in the stomach content research here in the USA. There are no commercial edible fish like Snapper and grouper in these Goliath groupers. You're making a very good reinforcing point to the diet preferences of these animals. Thank you

 

[100days-a-year]

That's right Tony. Slow moving fishes like puffers are an easy target for Goliath. That is what we found in the stomach content research here in the USA. There are no commercial edible fish like Snapper and grouper in these Goliath groupers. You're making a very good reinforcing point to the diet preferences of these animals. Thank you

I've done nothing of the sort. I've proved the primarily crustacean diet claim is false in 34 goliaths in Brazil from 2005 to 2010.
Thats how science actually works as opposed to what's going on in this thread. Extrapolating results that mimic personal beliefs from limited data isn't science, it's another logical fallacy.
The quoting out of context fallacy, false dilemma fallacy, proof by assertion fallacy and a few others are repeated over and over in this thread.
Once again Pete and couple others have shown intellectual integrity by making a stand for their values as opposed to the clowns asserting " facts " that are so limited in scope as to be meaningless.

 

[tekkydiver]

I kind of remember this argument years back during the Golden Years of Dan Volker on SB.
There was a researcher from FSU presenting many of the same arguments supporting the GG. Groundbreaking, I believe, was the term used about the published findings....
Only having to retract what she published when it was discredited.

Seems like we need to concentrate more on protecting the environment rather than a particular species.

 

[tomfcrist]

the Golden Years of Dan Volker on SB.

Now why are you bringing up “old shitz”?

 

[tursiops]

Seems like we need to concentrate more on protecting the environment rather than a particular species.

Rather a strong generalized conclusion based on a limited, tenuous case.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

I've done nothing of the sort. I've proved the primarily crustacean diet claim is false in 34 goliaths in Brazil from 2005 to 2010.
Thats how science actually works as opposed to what's going on in this thread. Extrapolating results that mimic personal beliefs from limited data isn't science, it's another logical fallacy.
The quoting out of context fallacy, false dilemma fallacy, proof by assertion fallacy and a few others are repeated over and over in this thread.
Once again Pete and couple others have shown intellectual integrity by making a stand for their values as opposed to the clowns asserting " facts " that are so limited in scope as to be meaningless.

That's kind of a hilarious take, given that FWC has had multiple stock assessments rejected and according to their own "alternative metrics" (a term I could not resist mocking in front of the commission and FWRI staff) they need another 10 years of data collection (data they could have gotten without the tag harvest). The decision was entirely based on the complaints of the "WAAAAAAH THE BIG MEAN FISH STOLE MY FISH" crowd, although I attribute the low return rate far less to puckish antics as described in the original post than to limited interest. The take crowd was and is baying after the big adults for the affront of stealing catches.

The other jab I couldn't resist, and unfortunately the chairman declined to be present for the meeting in question where the final decision was made, was how in May 2021 he had compared the goliath grouper to the manatee, saying FWC had "done a heckuva job" with that recovery (clearly he forgot how well that line went over in New Orleans). Bear in mind that in his previous stint as FWC commission chairman, he'd overseen the downlisting of the manatee. Five months later, FWC declares an "unusual mortality event" for that species which, at least going by FWC's aerial survey numbers, killed off about 20% of the statewide population over three years.

Personally, I'm not worried about the take of 200 juvenile goliath grouper a year on its own; I'm concerned that it wasn't backed up by science, the proponents are openly pushing for a population reduction, and this is a species that particularly in the inshore juvenile habitats gets clouted by red tides, cold snaps, and habitat loss.

 

[CuzzA]

I'm concerned that it wasn't backed up by science

Welcome to the world of fisheries management.