San Diego Dive Fatality 9-29-09
- Thread starter crispix
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mbwilliamn
Contributor
Situational Awareness. I stated earlier in the thread, I had a certified DM try to do the same thing to my son. Fortunately he and I both realized this was wrong and refused to comply!
reefphreak
Registered
The DM was employed by the boat operator and acting in the course and scope of his employment. They are responsible for his actions and their insurer will be the deep pocket.
Good samaratin laws will not shield the boat operator or the DM. they only operate for someone that is not compensated. Also, assumption of the risk will likly not help as the DM by removing the BC increased the risk of harm (death).
In this case it is not a question of whether the family will recover form the boat operator, but how much...
Good samaratin laws will not shield the boat operator or the DM. they only operate for someone that is not compensated. Also, assumption of the risk will likly not help as the DM by removing the BC increased the risk of harm (death).
In this case it is not a question of whether the family will recover form the boat operator, but how much...
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If everything goes as we would expect from this discussion. How much proof does the family have that the DM told him to remove the BC, or could it be thot that the DM was trying to assist when the deceased did so on his own.
But this has gone beyond what we can learn about saver diving already, hasn't it...?
reefphreak
Registered
I believe the DM admitted it to the investigators.
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Well, don't know about anyone else, but taking off your gear underwater is something that is taught, as a normal thing, in OWD courses. The idea is that if you become entangled, you just take off the BC, fix the problem, and go about your business.
It is truly sad when a diver perishes - for whatever reason - while diving. A few questions come to mind, like where was his buddy, etc.?
All around, a sad thing, as this person was quite young. Hopefully the rest of us won't get lax in our own endeavors, remember our buddy checks, remember to dive within our limits, and remember to not only stay updated on skills, but to actually practice them. It is far too easy to say "I don't need to practice that (skill), as it won't happen to me". Well, sad fact is, things do go wrong.
My condolences to the person's family.
It is truly sad when a diver perishes - for whatever reason - while diving. A few questions come to mind, like where was his buddy, etc.?
All around, a sad thing, as this person was quite young. Hopefully the rest of us won't get lax in our own endeavors, remember our buddy checks, remember to dive within our limits, and remember to not only stay updated on skills, but to actually practice them. It is far too easy to say "I don't need to practice that (skill), as it won't happen to me". Well, sad fact is, things do go wrong.
My condolences to the person's family.
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Well, I read more of the posts.
As an Instructor, and avid diver, a few points to consider:
First, YOU are responsible for YOU. I get tired of people asking me "why" they have to know self-rescue procedures when they'll "always dive with a guide". Simple fact, that everyone needs to remember, re-read, and memorize as a chant is that you must dive within your abilities and the conditions.
Second, the standard drill is to sign an indemnity agreement when you take a class, go out on a boat, etc. While attorney's often try and legally "pierce" these agreements, the plain and simple fact is that DM's/DiveCon's on boats have no idea what a person's skill level is, have no idea what their physical condition is, have no idea really about anything about a person other than the C-card and what the person might tell the proprietor of the establishment when they sign up for the trip.
Third, in discussions with fellow divers around the world, I am horrified when I hear people do not practice their safety skills on their dives. In not practicing these skills, they are doing not only themselves a disservice, but they are needlessly endangering their buddy. It takes only a moment to go over, prior to a dive, a quick review of buddy-breathing, or an air-sharing ascent, etc. Once in the water, everyone should make it a habit to take off their mask and replace it (yes, at depth), as well as BC removal. Finally, you should know where your buddy's weight system release is located....is it integrated, or not? If so, how is it released? Where is their power inflator button? Are they using an AirSource-type setup, an I3 with no hose, or what? Find out, please!!!
Okay, so I'm preaching. But everyone should know how to fix a problem at depth. In order to lessen panic, we all have to continually practice this stuff, so when something happens in real life (and if you dive enough, you will have incidents arise), you will find your practice and training will allow you to handle the problems at depth with little or no stress.
We can all speculate what happened to this young man. Unfortunately, statistics show that the majority of diver drowings occur with the weight belt still on. When students ask why we practice ditching weights and orally inflating the BC, they may not understand that it may save their life someday, but they will remember that their (inflated) BC is their friend.
So I have preached enough. Please don't become a statistic by thinking you don't "have" to practice the drills you were taught in your classes. All of these skills weren't taught to fill up class time, but for a very real reason.
As an Instructor, and avid diver, a few points to consider:
First, YOU are responsible for YOU. I get tired of people asking me "why" they have to know self-rescue procedures when they'll "always dive with a guide". Simple fact, that everyone needs to remember, re-read, and memorize as a chant is that you must dive within your abilities and the conditions.
Second, the standard drill is to sign an indemnity agreement when you take a class, go out on a boat, etc. While attorney's often try and legally "pierce" these agreements, the plain and simple fact is that DM's/DiveCon's on boats have no idea what a person's skill level is, have no idea what their physical condition is, have no idea really about anything about a person other than the C-card and what the person might tell the proprietor of the establishment when they sign up for the trip.
Third, in discussions with fellow divers around the world, I am horrified when I hear people do not practice their safety skills on their dives. In not practicing these skills, they are doing not only themselves a disservice, but they are needlessly endangering their buddy. It takes only a moment to go over, prior to a dive, a quick review of buddy-breathing, or an air-sharing ascent, etc. Once in the water, everyone should make it a habit to take off their mask and replace it (yes, at depth), as well as BC removal. Finally, you should know where your buddy's weight system release is located....is it integrated, or not? If so, how is it released? Where is their power inflator button? Are they using an AirSource-type setup, an I3 with no hose, or what? Find out, please!!!
Okay, so I'm preaching. But everyone should know how to fix a problem at depth. In order to lessen panic, we all have to continually practice this stuff, so when something happens in real life (and if you dive enough, you will have incidents arise), you will find your practice and training will allow you to handle the problems at depth with little or no stress.
We can all speculate what happened to this young man. Unfortunately, statistics show that the majority of diver drowings occur with the weight belt still on. When students ask why we practice ditching weights and orally inflating the BC, they may not understand that it may save their life someday, but they will remember that their (inflated) BC is their friend.
So I have preached enough. Please don't become a statistic by thinking you don't "have" to practice the drills you were taught in your classes. All of these skills weren't taught to fill up class time, but for a very real reason.
Apparently you don't understand our legal system.
Bingo! A person doesn't need to be a Legal Scholar to quickly conclude the Good Samaritan Law has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if an Attorney was laughed out the courtroom for even introducing that defense... The boat operator's insurance will cover the legal judgement up to the limits of the policy and if the judgement exceeds that, I hope for the boat operator's sake that they are Incorporated and not running as a Sole Prop or Partnership...
ItsBruce
Contributor
As a result of this incident, at the end of my dive yesterday, I did a practice / test in which I took off my BCD (a BP/W). At 25 feet, I was positive and it was negative. (As a result, it was important that I hung onto it until I put it back on.)
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