San Diego Dive Fatality 9-29-09

[Leejnd]

Thanks for sharing your thought process, Bruce. I'm sure it will give other divers with similar gear set-ups pause for thought as well.

 

[ShakaZulu]

When I dive with a drysuit, the weight belt goes under the crotch strap, alternatively, when I dive with a wetsuit, it goes on the outside.

 

[mbwilliamn]

OK, Scuba diving is the only recreation that I've been involved in where there is rarely anything to learn from the accidents (and that's not a good thing).


Unlike other recreational pursuits (hows that) where people make mistakes and the reader can see how they could have made that same mistake too...in scuba this is usually not the case.

I'd have to disagree. Maybe not learning as in "never heard that before", but definitely learning as in seeing the impact of "don't touch the stove" vs just having someone say it....these discussions help burn in those lessons.

You've got a lot of experience, as do many people on this forum, but there are also MANY people who do not have that level of experience and can LEARN from the comments here.

Anyone else out there ever think about hooking your weights and BC off to the side of the boat? (Ref Thal). Probably not unless you've dove off of small boats recently of frequently. Many other refreshers and additional lessons are brought up in the discussions after an accident, incident or fatality.

 

[drdaddy]

This whole thing has given me pause to consider my diving style. I use a BP/W setup and wear my weight belt inside the crotch strap. I started doing that out of concern about losing my weight belt at depth.

I decided to call Tobin at DSS to solicit his thoughts. He makes no recommendations, but provided me with a lot of information. It comes down to this:

1. I should move weight to my BP/W so that even without it, I am positively buoyant. (Thus, I don't need to worry about sinking if I take off my BP/W. I do need to worry about floating if I do that at depth and fail to hold on to it or a big rock.)

2. My total weight should be such that with a full tank and empty wing or BCD, I float at eye level. He points out that because I'm using a full tank, I can fine tune my weight at the beginning of the dive when it is easy to do. This may require that I swim down the first few feet until my wetsuit compresses and loses some buoyancy. And, it may require my safety stop to be at 20 feet rather than 15. However, less weight has lots of benefits.

3. If I wear my weight belt inside my crotch strap, I am somewhat protected against losing my weight belt under water. As far as ditching it in an emergency, I can consider one of two things:

a. I use weight pouches and as a result, I can drop 1 or 2 three pound weights quickly and easily. (Since my weighting is minimal, this may be more than enough to make me positively buoyant. And it will surely be enough if I'm at the surface because I'm weighted to be positive at the surface even with an empty wing.)

b. According to Tobin, if I just release the belly strap on the BP/W along with the weight belt, the crotch strap will slide off the belly strap and the weight belt will drop. (I'll have to test this to see if it actually happens.)

4. If I am more concerned with dumping my weight belt than with losing it, I can wear it outside the crotch strap.

Unless I hear any real good arguments to the contrary or I find that I can't make myself positively buoyant as described above, I think I'm going to continue to wear my weights inside my crotch strap -- and make sure my buddy is aware of it.

I dive with a weight integrated BCD. I have removed the non-releasable weights and put them on my releasable weight belt. This gives me greater flexibility if I need to release my weights. Also, in the event I purposefully or accidentally release one of my weights, my ascent will not be a "rocket launch".

In regard to the accident in discussion, if I were to hand up my weight integrated BCD, my weight belt would not pull me, and my 7mm farmer john wetsuit, down under water. However, if I were to choose to use a 3mm wetsuit, I had better beware when I change my weight configuration.

By the way, I have been diving on boats and off platforms where the weights are handed up first and then the BCDs are removed (and clipped to a line) or one steps on board with the BCD on. I can see the benefit of this since I have had knee surgery, twice on both knees.

About learning from the mistakes of others. I've said it before. As a psychologist I have seen three kinds of patients. The wisest learns from the mistakes of others, the second learns from his/her own mistakes, and the third never learns. In the case of scuba, not learning from our own and others' mistakes can be fatal. I really appreciate what I learn and re-learn from reading about dive accidents.

 

[Thalassamania]

1. I should move weight to my BP/W so that even without it, I am positively buoyant. (Thus, I don't need to worry about sinking if I take off my BP/W. I do need to worry about floating if I do that at depth and fail to hold on to it or a big rock.)

Bad move in my view. If entanglement forces you to remove your rig, you're gonna wish that you and your rig are each as close to neutral as possible.

3. If I wear my weight belt inside my crotch strap, I am somewhat protected against losing my weight belt under water. As far as ditching it in an emergency, I can consider one of two things:

a. I use weight pouches and as a result, I can drop 1 or 2 three pound weights quickly and easily. (Since my weighting is minimal, this may be more than enough to make me positively buoyant. And it will surely be enough if I'm at the surface because I'm weighted to be positive at the surface even with an empty wing.)

That may work fine in theory, but I'm not sure I'd depend on it as an emergency procedure.

b. According to Tobin, if I just release the belly strap on the BP/W along with the weight belt, the crotch strap will slide off the belly strap and the weight belt will drop. (I'll have to test this to see if it actually happens.)

That is true, but it is one more step in an emergency.

4. If I am more concerned with dumping my weight belt than with losing it, I can wear it outside the crotch strap.

Unless I hear any real good arguments to the contrary or I find that I can't make myself positively buoyant as described above, I think I'm going to continue to wear my weights inside my crotch strap -- and make sure my buddy is aware of it.

Seeing photos of a dead body (for real) with the weightbelt fouled in the crotch strap might provide enough impetus to change your mind.

When I dive with a drysuit, the weight belt goes under the crotch strap, alternatively, when I dive with a wetsuit, it goes on the outside.

Once of the cannons of diving, weights are the last on and the first off.

I dive with a weight integrated BCD. I have removed the non-releasable weights and put them on my releasable weight belt. This gives me greater flexibility if I need to release my weights. Also, in the event I purposefully or accidentally release one of my weights, my ascent will not be a "rocket launch".

In regard to the accident in discussion, if I were to hand up my weight integrated BCD, my weight belt would not pull me, and my 7mm farmer john wetsuit, down under water. However, if I were to choose to use a 3mm wetsuit, I had better beware when I change my weight configuration.

By the way, I have been diving on boats and off platforms where the weights are handed up first and then the BCDs are removed (and clipped to a line) or one steps on board with the BCD on. I can see the benefit of this since I have had knee surgery, twice on both knees.

A good plan from many perspectives.

About learning from the mistakes of others. I've said it before. As a psychologist I have seen three kinds of patients. The wisest learns from the mistakes of others, the second learns from his/her own mistakes, and the third never learns. In the case of scuba, not learning from our own and others' mistakes can be fatal. I really appreciate what I learn and re-learn from reading about dive accidents.

That's worthy of a sticky.

 

[redrover]

If this is like every other scuba accident there is nothing to learn from it. ............Scuba is the only sport I've been involved in where there is almost never anything to be learned from an accident (and that's not a good thing).

Please forgive me if I do not live up to your expectations
Do you you mean nothing to learn from 'diver died' or are you including the surrounding discussion it sparked?
I confess; I have learned more than one thing here and been reminded of a great many more.

 

[gcbryan]

I'd have to disagree. Maybe not learning as in "never heard that before", but definitely learning as in seeing the impact of "don't touch the stove" vs just having someone say it....these discussions help burn in those lessons.

You've got a lot of experience, as do many people on this forum, but there are also MANY people who do not have that level of experience and can LEARN from the comments here.

Anyone else out there ever think about hooking your weights and BC off to the side of the boat? (Ref Thal). Probably not unless you've dove off of small boats recently of frequently. Many other refreshers and additional lessons are brought up in the discussions after an accident, incident or fatality.

My point wasn't that there is no point in these threads or in reading them. I'm here reading them as well. My point is that unfortunately (or fortunately) however you want to look at it most accidents aren't caused by things that we can generally learn from in recreational scuba simply because accidents that result from a complicated series of events aren't usually the ones resulting in death.

The good news perhaps is that we've eliminated all but the gross mistakes that we are never going to reduce. Everyone knows to not use up all of your air. If someone dies from that then that is a accident that we are just never going to eliminate.

Sure, there are side issues that people can learn from such as the ones mentioned. I disagree though that this recent case involved an "experienced" diver if that diver ran out of air. Getting tangled up in kelp should not result in death and an experienced diver should not run out of air.

There would be more to learn if this diver while underwater got caught up in kelp, couldn't untangle himself, ran out of air and died. There would be more lessons to learn there.

All the details of the story aren't entirely clear to me if it starts with running out of air I see very little to learn here. Or unless you are sure you can hang on to your BC or float without it while keeping a weight belt on don't take it off...I'm not sure there is a lesson here either.

If you disagree that almost all scuba related deaths not involving health are the result of simple things that we all know then that's your right of course but you might examine all of the deaths in your local area and see if any involved a complicated series of events that you feel could have happened to you on a bad day. You might find very few in that category.

 

[gcbryan]

Seeing photos of a dead body (for real) with the weightbelt fouled in the crotch strap might provide enough impetus to change your mind.

Thal, you've got a lot of experience and I always consider your posts. In this case I disagree that over the crotch strap is the only way. However, given your comments couldn't there just as easily be a situation resulting in a photo of a dead body resulting in an uncontrolled ascent where the weight belt fell off?

I too would rather plan for ditching on the surface and retaining a belt at depth. My back would give out anyway if I put all my gear on and then tried to put on my belt as the last item. Warm water with less overall weight maybe.

It may be one more step in an emergency but it's more or less the same step.

About learning from the mistakes of others. I've said it before. As a psychologist I have seen three kinds of patients. The wisest learns from the mistakes of others, the second learns from his/her own mistakes, and the third never learns. In the case of scuba, not learning from our own and others' mistakes can be fatal. I really appreciate what I learn and re-learn from reading about dive accidents.

Regardless of the impressions of some of the responses I've gotten on here I completely agree with your statement. My comments seem to be take to mean that I think I'm above learning from the mistakes of others. Nothing could be further from the truth. In other activities I really appreciate reading and learning from accident reports/analysis. I find it frustrating to a degree that the accidents resulting in death in our sport are so easily prevented.

 

[Thalassamania]

Thal, you've got a lot of experience and I always consider your posts. In this case I disagree that over the crotch strap is the only way. However, given your comments couldn't there just as easily be a situation resulting in a photo of a dead body resulting in an uncontrolled ascent where the weight belt fell off?

You pays your money and takes your chances. I hedge my bet by using a rubber belt with a wire buckle ... that does not get dropped accidentally nor does it fall off like the standard buckles. So with the odds of that sort of incident reduced, the problem becomes reducing the odds of not being able to get rid of the belt when you most need to.

 

[ddrpi1]

All that seems to come to my mind is that he must have gotten tangled in the kelp and tried to untangle his gear while taking it off, and then got swept away

Only other option is out of air, the reports that I have read said he was 46 and still had his weight belt on