San Diego accident

[DandyDon]

Oh gawd, 3 person dive teams can be the most challenging to me. Have to watch both of them fully.

 

[Ben_ca]

Don,
IMHO I think that diving with 3 individuals is exceptionally challenging... but diving with a 3 man team is better sometimes that diving with 2...

 

[DandyDon]

Well, I am lucky if I know my dive bud for more than a week, much less two buds on the same dive. A 3 diver teams who know each other well would be totally different from what I generally experience.

 

[wardric]

I dive with 2 buddies all the time. a 3 men team like Ben said. The 3 Musketeers. We prefer this to having to decide wich one of us is going to go with the insta-buddy.

On the other hand, 2 of us went with a poorly skilled diver once and we made the mistake of putting her in the middle (5-10 ft viz). The communication was totally cut between us 2 coz the middle diver didn't relay anything so the dive went pretty bad. But that, is another story... .

 

[Ayisha]

with regard to diving with someone that's bigger than I am (from a rescue perspective)... If the difference is so great that I wouldn't be able to drag him up the beach I would think twice about diving a secluded spot with him...

You might be surprised how well you can rescue someone who's much bigger than you.

In my Rescue O/W, another petite girl and I (each about 100 lbs or less) buddied up together. The instructor said no way, he didn't want people helping each other and he wanted us to EARN it, so he split us up. The person who I had to rescue for the entire weekend was a 305 lb male DM who was told to be a dead weight and not help at all. I thought this was mean and it seemed impossible. Well, the other instructor gave me various tips on using leverage instead of strength, and I passed every skill with flying colours. I surprised myself as well as everyone else. I think most people would have less of a difference than over 200 lbs, and could be just as successful.

BTW, re: checking your buddy's air. I definitely check any newer buddy's air or any buddy that I know has a much higher consumption rate than me. I normally show them mine and signal to see theirs or lean over and look. Looking from behind them is a new idea to me - I'll have to try that...

I also notice if they are looking at their gauges or not. If they aren't looking at least periodically, then I will ask them by the time I'm at 2000 psi if not higher, just to be safe. My usual buddies check their gauges often, as I do, and we just show each other when one of us reaches 1500 psi or whatever was planned for that dive.

 

[Graeme Tolton]

What could be more important than checking your buddy's air (other than checking your own)? Especially if you are diving singles with k valves . Personally, I always have a redundant air source with me, but it is my last resort, never having NEEDED to use it. It should never be seen as negative to ask your buddy how much air he has remaining. If he is offended by it, that is just plain ignorance. As posted earlier is in not his air/gas, it is our air/gas. There is no reason to be sneaky about it. Yes, plan your dive and dive your plan, but if someone's air comsumption changes or there is equipment failure, changes can be made.

I also agree with the earlier post about how training should be more regimented. Some shops seem to care more than they should about people's feelings and ego. Some people simply should not get their certification. If it takes a wrecking ball of a person getting a huge ego blow for failing their OW, so be it. One less fatality over stupid circumstance to read about. In the story in this post, one panicked diver could have caused a double fatality quite easily. It's amazing. In Ontario, you can lose your driver's license for endangering other's lives. You can certainly lose your firearms license, but you will never lose your OW card.

 

[Ayisha]

It should never be seen as negative to ask your buddy how much air he has remaining. If he is offended by it, that is just plain ignorance. As posted earlier is in not his air/gas, it is our air/gas. There is no reason to be sneaky about it.

That seems reasonable to me, but some people do get offended, and they may be the ones who we need to be most wary of.

Last spring, I was diving the Duane in Key Largo with an instructor who I had been diving with several times before, but nowhere near that deep and never with current with him. The plan was to let each other know when we got to 1500 psi. He had signalled to turn around at what I thought was a reasonable point. I never looked at his gauge or questioned him because he is an instructor and I figured he had plenty of gas just like I did. When I was at nearly 2000 psi, and we were approaching the line, he showed me his gauge which said 200 psi - at 100 feet! I couldn't believe it! I guess he was pretty confident that he wasn't going to lose me... I knew that I had enough gas to get both of us to the surface safely with all of our extra stops along the way, so I wasn't worried. We shared air for the entire ascent, until just before we reached the surface.

He said afterward that when he nearly lost his camera at the surface in the current before it was clipped off, he used a lot of gas. He also routinely checked my consumption and used that plus his knowledge of my low SAC to conduct our dive. How's that crazy take on planning for "our" gas?

On the next (shallower) dive, I saw him looking at his gauge and I pulled it closer for me to look and he pulled his gauge away and smacked my hand. So I smacked him back. As far as I was concerned, he had lost his privilege of not having his gas supply monitored and I no longer trusted him as a buddy. He did show me less than a minute later, but I had already gotten a peek and it was much better.

I'm sure that was a very unusual situation, but I guess there are some people that do get offended by people looking at their gauges. I have noticed that whenever I dive with instructors, they look at my gauges, but never offer theirs to look at.

 

[Graeme Tolton]

That seems reasonable to me, but some people do get offended, and they may be the ones who we need to be most wary of.

Last spring, I was diving the Duane in Key Largo with an instructor who I had been diving with several times before, but nowhere near that deep and never with current with him. The plan was to let each other know when we got to 1500 psi. He had signalled to turn around at what I thought was a reasonable point. I never looked at his gauge or questioned him because he is an instructor and I figured he had plenty of gas just like I did. When I was at nearly 2000 psi, and we were approaching the line, he showed me his gauge which said 200 psi - at 100 feet! I couldn't believe it! I guess he was pretty confident that he wasn't going to lose me... I knew that I had enough gas to get both of us to the surface safely with all of our extra stops along the way, so I wasn't worried. We shared air for the entire ascent, until just before we reached the surface.

He said afterward that when he nearly lost his camera at the surface in the current before it was clipped off, he used a lot of gas. He also routinely checked my consumption and used that plus his knowledge of my low SAC to conduct our dive. How's that crazy take on planning for "our" gas?

On the next (shallower) dive, I saw him looking at his gauge and I pulled it closer for me to look and he pulled his gauge away and smacked my hand. So I smacked him back. As far as I was concerned, he had lost his privilege of not having his gas supply monitored and I no longer trusted him as a buddy. He did show me less than a minute later, but I had already gotten a peek and it was much better.

I'm sure that was a very unusual situation, but I guess there are some people that do get offended by people looking at their gauges. I have noticed that whenever I dive with instructors, they look at my gauges, but never offer theirs to look at.

Amazing... Just goes to show that there are, unfortunately some bad instructors out there. Smack my hand for looking at your gauge and you are getting the thumbs up. If I don't KNOW that if i have a catastrophic failure, i will have enough gas for my 100 ft ascent at 30 f/min, safety stop and gas to spare, i guess I can consider it to be a LOA condition.

 

[Missdirected]

That seems reasonable to me, but some people do get offended, and they may be the ones who we need to be most wary of.

Last spring, I was diving the Duane in Key Largo with an instructor who I had been diving with several times before, but nowhere near that deep and never with current with him. The plan was to let each other know when we got to 1500 psi. He had signalled to turn around at what I thought was a reasonable point. I never looked at his gauge or questioned him because he is an instructor and I figured he had plenty of gas just like I did. When I was at nearly 2000 psi, and we were approaching the line, he showed me his gauge which said 200 psi - at 100 feet! I couldn't believe it! I guess he was pretty confident that he wasn't going to lose me... I knew that I had enough gas to get both of us to the surface safely with all of our extra stops along the way, so I wasn't worried. We shared air for the entire ascent, until just before we reached the surface.

He said afterward that when he nearly lost his camera at the surface in the current before it was clipped off, he used a lot of gas. He also routinely checked my consumption and used that plus his knowledge of my low SAC to conduct our dive. How's that crazy take on planning for "our" gas?

On the next (shallower) dive, I saw him looking at his gauge and I pulled it closer for me to look and he pulled his gauge away and smacked my hand. So I smacked him back. As far as I was concerned, he had lost his privilege of not having his gas supply monitored and I no longer trusted him as a buddy. He did show me less than a minute later, but I had already gotten a peek and it was much better.

I'm sure that was a very unusual situation, but I guess there are some people that do get offended by people looking at their gauges. I have noticed that whenever I dive with instructors, they look at my gauges, but never offer theirs to look at.

I don't like when people try and sneak over and look at my gauge. I find it odd, especially when I am not their buddy. I've run into that a few times of late. Oddly enough, I notice this a lot in new instructors Kind of makes me laugh a little considering I am not their student. Anywho, if you want to know how much air I have - ask me - it should always be as simple as that.

Ayisha, I hope you smacked him back really hard I agree with you. He needed to go "back to the beginning" where someone is grabbing his gauges to find out what his gas content is, since he hasn't learned to be responsible for letting you know himself. Instructor or not.