Saltwater Aspiration Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cliffdiver]

bubbleornothing -

After all this good discussion, which I think we all hope has been helpful, I also think we'd all like to know how you're doing. That is (and I'm going to assume that you're getting yourself fully checked out medically), how are you doing psychologically? You feeling better, settled down and ready to consider getting back out again some day soon? (Not too soon, of course.)

I don't think there is any doubt that this can be a pretty traumatic thing, the more so the more new you are to diving. So, again, I think every one on the Board joins me in hoping you're feeling better - mentally and physically - and that we'll see you in the water again soon. There are many reasons scuba diving has such a fantastic safety record. DAN and discussion boards like this are just the start...

 

[Padipro]

Laurence Stein DDS once bubbled...
Padipro,

Hey! Where in South Florida are you located? I'm near Kendall.

Cheers.

Larry Stein

I'm north and west of you, in Sunrise.

Are you available to dive during the week? I work nights and weekends with Tues, Wed, and Thursdays off. I was looking at trying to get a few people together this coming Thursday, if the weather is nice, and trying to get wet. PM me if you're interested.

Scott

 

[terrydarc]

...to consider that would account for sucking water and would have nothing to do with the reg. I notice when I'm craning my head from side to side looking at all the neat stuff that I put tension on the reg hose. This can pull the mouthpiece slightly loose in my mouth and might allow water to get into my mouth. Properly deploying the hose around your arm is something to check as well.

It's probably the reg, but if changing regs doesn't do the job, consider being distracted by all the pretty fishies, corals, and other divers causing a problem.
=Terry

 

[chrpai]

Could you put salt water in a room humidifier, crank it on and make someone sick?

 

[Otter]

Laurence Stein DDS once bubbled...
awap,

I think you may be on to something. Regulator mouthpieces tear or get pinhole perforations where the are connected to the orifice--next to the tie wrap. You have to pull the tabs to find the problem. Air rushing thru the mouthpiece creates a partial vacuum (Bernouli's Principle) and will suck water into the air stream. This water will become atomized and easily inhaled. Heck, did you ever see the mist when you purge the reg...and that is expected?

<snip>

Regards,

Larry Stein

How much water would have to be coming from these leaks to cause a problem? Does the salt compound the issue or is it purely the fluid. Wouldn't there have to be enough coming in that you would choke or something enough that you would know that there was a problem. Could it be so fine amount that it would take 20 mins to become a real problem BUT also so much that it wouldn't all just adhere/condense in your mouth/throat? I had dived a few 'wet' regs and never had any issues.

 

[Genesis]

Large "drops" of saltwater are going to taste like, well, salt, but are unlikely to cause serious respiratory trouble, as they won't get very far down into the lungs and will produce a lot of choking and coughing before they can cause real damage.

Its an AEROSOL of salt mist that would be big trouble, and also might be less-easily detected.

The passages in your airway do a pretty good job of filtering out "large" things without much damage being done, and also tend to provoke immediate coughing.

Aerosols, on the other hand, are bad news, as they will get into the alevolar bed and that's where you don't want it due to the potential damage to the mucosal structure in the lungs (which is what keeps the alevolar bed open to gas exchange!)

I would be far more suspect of a problem within the second stage that led to this rather than a partial seal break on your reg mouthpiece.

This assumes that you didn't actively choke on seawater and aspirate a LOT of it (which you're not likely to miss having happen!); you report that you didn't, however.

I'd be very concerned about the quality of the diagnosis myself if I had such an event and would want to seek a highly-qualified diving physician (call DAN to find one!) evaluate this.

If you neither choked on water nor had any taste of salt during the dive up to that point I'd be extremely suspicious of a pneumothorax event (specifically, a meditastinal emphysema) and would want to rule it out absolutely before doing any additional diving, as a TENSION pneumothorax (which is pretty easy to end up with if you have one initiate at depth) is usually fatal.

A woman here in the Panhandle died from this over the summer; she had a congenital condition that caused a pneumothorax at depth, and surfacing converted that into a tension pneumothorax which was fatal.

A couple of questions....

1. Were you DEEPER than 30fsw before the problem occurred?
2. Did the problem appear to occur during or commensurate with an ascent to 30fsw?
3. Did it get WORSE as you ascended further?

If the answers to the three above questions are "yes" then I'd be even MORE suspicious!

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

Hey Otter,

Actually, it wouldn't take much salt water to cause problems. Sea water is hypertonic (saltier than normal tissue salinity). If it enters the lungs as a fine mist, it will be distributed everywhere. Since there is more salt in the sea water than tissue fluid or blood and conversely, less water. Water from the tissue side of the equation tries to diffuse across the alveolar membranes into the air spaces...i.e. fluid in the lungs. This fluid transfer is called osmosis. The salt also tries to move into the tissues because the higher concentration moves toward a lesser concentration...diffusion.

Osmosis is simply the diffusion of WATER.

As fluid accumulates in the air spaces, you cannot exchange gases properly. In essence you have the equivalent of salt water drowning. This is somewhat different than freshwater drowning.

I don't know the exact amount of salt water necessary to cause a problem, but it isn't much.

Larry Stein:wacko:

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

Geez, Genesis beat me!!!;-0

Good points though. Again, it's the aerosol. If you want to get an idea of how much aerosol can be produced, watch your reg when you purge it to switch tanks...you'll see some mist come out.

There is certainly a larger pressure drop or perhaps I should say a more rapid pressure drop and the potential for condensation as the cooler air hits the ambient air but some if the mist is salt water.

Larry Stein

 

[Genesis]

If it happened to me, and I detected no salt taste before the incident I'd certainly be questioning if that's what really happened.... because the OTHER obvious possible cause of something like this is really bad news and NOT equipment related.

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

Hey Genesis,

It seems to me that when diving in salt water, your mouth tastes like...salt water! I'm not sure you will notice a salty mist. On the otherhand, you will certainly notice a bolus of water. But that will be memorable and will cause you to choke immediately....coughing it up.

Larry Stein

Er...has anyone notice where bubbleornothing has gone. I thought we were resonding to "help"! HELLO! Anyone there?


Hey! Is that a 5 lb grouper??? Just kidding