safety stops, deco stops....

[vjanelle]

Are You a certified diver ?

If so, who was your instructor? You should ask him since you paid for your certification .....

My take on the difference between safety stop and deco stop is: "if you are using our simulator and you ascend missing a deco stop ..... you will be killed "

Alberto (aka eDiver)

Eh..

More like it's the opinion of the device creator that you are setting yourself up for a world of hurt.

 

[DaleC]

Simply exceeding NDL does not make one a technical diver.

Damn. You sure know how to spoil a party

My take on the difference between safety stop and deco stop is: "if you are using our simulator and you ascend missing a deco stop ..... you will be killed "
Alberto (aka eDiver)

Well... missing some or all of a deco obligation doesn't mean you are dead exactly as it is all based on theoretical models that effects everybody differently (not that I'm advocating such a thing). Better to be realistic about the risks involved than simply assuming instant death as there may be times when a diver has to take calculated risks as to whether they blow off some obligation or not.

My understanding is that the safety stop does more good by slowing the divers ascent rate and making them rise through the last 20' of water slowly than by actual offgassing (per se). From what I've read, the greater danger in NDL diving is from overexpansion injury rather than N2 build up. I would rather blow a safety stop than too rise to quickly to the surface (if you know what I mean).

 

[Crush]

Mpet -- I don't understand your comment -- please explain.

Were you speaking (typing) figuratively here, or is the above statement literally true? :shocked2:

Pertains to:

...a "safety stop" is an "advisory" decompression stop ("advisory" in that the statistics show there is very little, or no, increase in the risk of decompression illness for not doing it)...

Which is to say, I am not saying that your above statement is incorrect. It is, however, contrary to the assumptions which I have formed based upon my limited training. I would be surprised to find that there was little or no benefit to a safety stop, or that perhaps the benefit of a safety stop was less than, say, the benefit of drinking an extra glass of water to ensure hydration. It is not to say that I disagree with you - I have learned many shocking, valuable things on SB. I am just asking for clarification.

Thanks

 

[Crush]

Eh..

More like it's the opinion of the device creator that you are setting yourself up for a world of hurt.

I am about to add DiveNav to my ignore list - it is now a list of two users. I am tired about reading about his dive computer simulator. If a computer is so complicated that I need a simulator, I am going to buy a different computer.

Read DaleC's post - you can violate a deco obligation and walk away from it. You can also do everything by the book and end up in a wheelchair. Human bodies cannot be described by algorithms - they can, at best, be approximated by such.

Edit: Failure (see below)

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[Blackwood]

PADI/DSAT does not have decompression stops because they chose to exclude them from their model. They have no delta-M's that would allow you to calculate a subsurface M value.

The RDP does not have decompression stops because that was their intended usage of the model (to establish time limits - i.e. 'NDLs' - at each depth are such that a 60fpm direct ascent satisfies the deco).

Later (per Thalassamania), it was observed that many divers were ascending at beyond 60fpm. To combat that, safety stops (which in the case of a >MAXRATE ascent ARE decompression stops) were suggested.

 

[Belce]

Are You a certified diver ?

If so, who was your instructor? You should ask him since you paid for your certification .....

My take on the difference between safety stop and deco stop is: "if you are using our simulator and you ascend missing a deco stop ..... you will be killed "

Alberto (aka eDiver)

This is the "new to diving and considering diving" forum. It is entirely possible the original poster is new or considering diving in which case the poster could answer no to being certified and haven't selected an instructor yet to the other, just wanted to better understand some of the terms used.

A required decompression stop results from a dive plan for a specific depth and time that indicates a stop or stops required to properly off gas absorbed nitrogen as part of a proper and safe return to the surface. The time and depth of those stops as well as the gas mix used will be part of that plan.

Recreational dive training recommends safety stops, they also recommend that you dive within the limits and not to the limits. Recreational dive tables also use a different compartment for determining safe diving time limits since they assume you will not be doing a dive that requires a decompression stop. The DSAT tables use a 60 minute compartment that both fills up faster and empties faster than the 120 minute compartment used by the US Navy's tables.

I hope the response has helped with your inquiry here and if you have other questions on this or other topics, please let us know.

 

[DiveNav]

......More like it's the opinion of the device creator that you are setting yourself up for a world of hurt.

translate please .....

 

[DiveNav]

......Well... missing some or all of a deco obligation doesn't mean you are dead exactly as it is all based on theoretical models that effects everybody differently (not that I'm advocating such a thing). Better to be realistic about the risks involved than simply assuming instant death as there may be times when a diver has to take calculated risks as to whether they blow off some obligation or not..

I know ...... instant death is a "temporary solution" .... down the road we plan to have a hyperbaric chamber simulation whereby the user that misses a deco stop will be forced to spend some time in the chamber

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

I am just sayin if you are cold, tired, stressed for any reason or yes if did a fast ascent those are all good reasons to add a safety stop. All those add to your risk and the stop dials it back. Although Peter is likely right that since the risk is close to zero it may not be possibe to tell a change from the noise.

 

[Crush]

I know ...... instant death is a "temporary solution" .... down the road we plan to have a hyperbaric chamber simulation whereby the user that misses a deco stop will be forced to spend some time in the chamber

Make it probabilistic - you might end up spending some time at the hotel pool drinking mojitos...