"Safe" weight distribution? Weight ditching question.

[CT-Rich]

Ditchable weight isn't about getting back to the surface. It is about staying there. I have been diving since 1980 and only ditched weight once and that was last weekend. The collar on my new Dry suit was restricting blood flow to my head while I was making a surface swim to shore in chop. The collar had not been a problem on land or in the water or in any of the seven previous dives since I bought the suit, but with the weights on my harness it was just producing a bad mojo. I was getting light headed and needed to get a more relaxed orientation that would relieve the pressure on my throat. I dumped the weights on the harness, closed the shoulder valve on the suit. I did not dump all the weight, just the harness, so my hips would float up. Within a couple of minutes of dropping the weights the blood flow was back and I was fine. The idea that a diver in open water should not even have the option because it never should happen is foolish. Keep all your options open. I have plenty of surface swims in rough seas and have never had to dump weights. This was different and I needed it this one time and there was no substitute.

I am sure that I there will be those that say I was over weighted or the suit wasn't fitted properly...but when sitting in the ocean, that was no longer the debate. I was not able to get an orientation in the water that allowed air from my lungs to get to my brain. It happened once. You may only need to buddy breath a single time in your entire dive career, but you are taught to have a redundant air source all the time. I have never questioned whether I want to have ditchable weights. Plenty of dead divers are found with there lead on. Even if it is just to hand up to someone on the boat so you can make it up the ladder.

 

[Doby45]

Plenty of dead divers are found with there lead on.

Ugh, this is one of the most overstated old strawman/red herring sayings in the world to scare people. Lets try this, there have been plenty of dead divers found with:

A snorkel on
A pair of fins on
A bcd on
A tank on their back
A mask on
A wetsuit on

Have any of these dead people been found to be dead BECAUSE they could not get their weights off? There have been dead people found with perfectly ditchable weight on such as easy ditchable pouches and weight belts. So, once again, whats your point?

 

[Storker]

this is one of the most overstated old strawman/red herring sayings in the world to scare people. Lets try this, there have been plenty of dead divers found with:

A snorkel on
A pair of fins on
A bcd on
A tank on their back
A mask on

Which of these have a direct impact on the diver's buoyancy?

Spoiler

None of them, but the weights do

 

[boulderjohn]

Which of these have a direct impact on the diver's buoyancy?

Spoiler

None of them, but the weights do

But that was not the point.

The point was that many people talk about the fact that the deceased diver was found with his weights on implies that removing the weights would have resulted in the diver living. The poster is pointing out that this is not a logical conclusion, any more then the presence of these other pieces of equipment are evidence that they were somehow involved in the fatality.

Several years ago I went through several years of DAN fatality reports and read each of the descriptions of the deaths for which they had information. I don't recall the actual statistics, but in roughly 90% of the cases, retaining or releasing weights would not have made one iota of difference. That group includes, for example, victims of sudden cardiac death. It includes people who made panicked ascents to the surface, where they died from air embolisms. In the majority of the remaining 10%, I did not have enough information to make a conclusion, so I categorized them as fatalities in which releasing weights MIGHT have made a difference. This group consists mainly of people who were missing and then located dead on the bottom, with no clear information on the cause of death. (Details are often spotty, and in cases of scuba drownings, autopsies are often not performed.)

The poster's point was that the oft quoted statistics of the number of people who died without releasing weights is misleading, because in the overwhelming majority of cases, doing so would have made no difference.

 

[Bob DBF]

Which of these have a direct impact on the diver's buoyancy?

Spoiler

None of them, but the weights do

I'd say the BCD has an impact on buoyancy, just saying.

Bob

 

[CT-Rich]

Going back to my original point, I was just involved in a situation where I decided to ditch weight for my own safety. If the weight had not gone off my harness the likelihood that would post is lower. I might have made it ashore without ditching, but that was an experiment I decided not to run.

The principle of ditchable weight goes all the way back to the beginning of scuba. On certain level it is like asking if the yellow divider lines on roads save lives. That there is little data that not having them costs live, but we keep them around anyway.

I have no idea of how many divers decide to dump weights for whatever reason and walk a way alive. Those statistics are not really kept, but I suppose if you ask charter captains, they have the story of the person that got in trouble and ditched weight, necessarily or not.

I should have picked out a specific post to respond to directly. A number of people were posting that they had no ditchable weight and that was the way it should be. This is the basic forum, most people here or in RL are not diving BP/W. Most are going to be recreational divers who are learning or have never dialed in their weights like some here may. The majority of divers are going to find ditchable weights the simple, safe choice. I dive in an environment where I need a significant amount of exposure suit. I trained almost 40 years ago with ditchable weights and am yet to see a down side that argues against it.

There are situations where it may not apply. Cavers don't want to lose lead. If you can be neutral with out it in tropics, god bless. But for most beginners having the option of losing lead to stay or (to a lesser degree) go to the surface is a pretty reasonable option.

 

[Bob DBF]

The principle of ditchable weight goes all the way back to the beginning of scuba.

As a matter of fact, back then, ditching your rig was taught as a way to drop weight and make oneself better able to swim home unencoumbered. That's why I don't own anything I won't ditch in an emergency.


Bob

 

[CT-Rich]

As a matter of fact, back then, ditching your rig was taught as a way to drop weight and make oneself better able to swim home unencoumbered. That's why I don't own anything I won't ditch in an emergency.


Bob

Don't bring anything in the water you aren't willing to lose.

 

[UFOrb]

I used to use a back inflate BCD (ScubaPro Nighthawk), and when I did, I needed 8 pounds of weight with an AL 80 and a 3mm wetsuit. I wore 2 pounds in each of the integrated pockets and the two trim pockets. I had no trouble hanging around on the surface comfortably because I had used back inflate BCDs my entire diving life and nobody had told me you couldn't float vertically on the surface with them. Not knowing it was not possible, I had always done it by simply positioning my body to make it happen. You just lean back a little.

Ditto...I use the same amount of weight, split between the two waist pockets and the two trim pockets, but I use a SP Litehawk rather than Nighthawk. As others have said, if you feel you're being pushed forward simply lean back a little and relax. You could also try releasing some air from the wing.

 

[boulderjohn]

As others have said, if you feel you're being pushed forward simply lean back a little and relax. You could also try releasing some air from the wing.

I thought of this thread last week when I was in the water and ready to dive and waiting for the rest of my group to finish gearing up. I was in a BP/W with double tanks, and the wing was filled very full. I was lying back and relaxing while they geared up. When I thought of this thread, I said to the rest of the group, "Hey! I just learned that back inflate BCDs and BP/Ws are bad because they throw you forward on your face on the surface." It got an amused laugh from the rest of the group, none of whom had ever experienced that, either.