S95 vs. G12? Ikelite vs. Fisheye?

[rob1967]

I've had a SeaLife DC1000 for the past year and a half, and have taken a lot of pictures, but am dissatisfied with it for various reasons, and ready to move up to something better.

I have settled on a Canon compact, but can't decide between the S95 or the G12. I have read a lot here and elsewhere, and talked to many people, but I am still not sure. It's hard to find people who actually know this stuff!

My understanding is the S95 has pretty much all the features of the G12 except the hot shoe, and some say the fibre-optic flash control is just as good as true TTL. Is this true? Also, the fibre-optic has no worries about flooding, and maybe I can use my old SeaLife strobe(s) with the S95, since it's also fibre optic (although I guess I would have to get some sort of adapter). Also I read somewhere that the S95 is more amenable to taking a wet wide angle lens. Does either camera require a macro lens to get good macro shots? A friend told me that you can get good macro with the S95 without a dedicated lens, but not so with the G12.

Also, can't decide between the Ikelite and the Fisheye FIX housing. I heard it's hard to get the Fisheye in, because of supply problems since the earthquake in Japan. But I don't mind springing for it if it's worth it. The thing about the Ikelite, is that many people say it's bulky, plus then you are stuck with using only Ikelite strobes. I do a lot of local diving, but also would like to take it on tropical trips without going way over the baggage allowance.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[Gilligan]

Both the G12 and the S95 have 28mm lenses. Several on this board have stated the G cameras take better macro shots than S cameras because the G camera has better lenses?

The Canon housings are NOT the best choice for adding a wet-mount wide angle lens.

I have a G10 and a G12 and even if you get up close to a macro subject you will IMO still have to crop the photo in post-processing so as to have it fill the entire frame. I don't use a wet-mount macro lens because I don't like it. Just a personal choice.

True TTL (hard wire) versus S-TTL (fiber optic cable) is an endless discussion. There seems to be more maintenance on the hard wire setup as well as more expense. I have a fiber optic fired strobe that is manual (no S-TTL settings) and I don't find it difficult to use once you get use to it.

Adapting a fiber optic cable to a Canon or other housing from your current strobe is not a major task with a DIY solution.

Finally I'll toss another camera/housing into the mix for you to consider:
the Olympus XZ-1 and the Olympus PT-050 housing. It has a threaded lens port for wet-mount lenses. The XZ-1 has a 24mm lens which may or may not be a plus, depending on the subject. It has a 1.8 lens versus the 2.0 on the S95 and 2.8 on the G12. 1.8 is better for low light non-strobe conditions. It has a larger sensor than the Canon cameras you are considering. Check the Olympus threads on this board for feedback on the XZ-1. It looks like a killer point-and-shoot camera.

 

[mct]

When we compare Ikelite and Fisheye housing I think we should consider also wide angle lens capabilites. As I understand from Ikelite web page their D-4 wet lenses only recovers orginal 28 mm wide spesification. Not like fisheye lenses that have 165 degree viewing angle(But dry lens).

Is there any other option for ikelite lenses ?? Like Inon or something else.?

Both the G12 and the S95 have 28mm lenses. Several on this board have stated the G cameras take better macro shots than S cameras because the G camera has better lenses?

The Canon housings are NOT the best choice for adding a wet-mount wide angle lens.

I have a G10 and a G12 and even if you get up close to a macro subject you will IMO still have to crop the photo in post-processing so as to have it fill the entire frame. I don't use a wet-mount macro lens because I don't like it. Just a personal choice.

True TTL (hard wire) versus S-TTL (fiber optic cable) is an endless discussion. There seems to be more maintenance on the hard wire setup as well as more expense. I have a fiber optic fired strobe that is manual (no S-TTL settings) and I don't find it difficult to use once you get use to it.

Adapting a fiber optic cable to a Canon or other housing from your current strobe is not a major task with a DIY solution.

Finally I'll toss another camera/housing into the mix for you to consider:
the Olympus XZ-1 and the Olympus PT-050 housing. It has a threaded lens port for wet-mount lenses. The XZ-1 has a 24mm lens which may or may not be a plus, depending on the subject. It has a 1.8 lens versus the 2.0 on the S95 and 2.8 on the G12. 1.8 is better for low light non-strobe conditions. It has a larger sensor than the Canon cameras you are considering. Check the Olympus threads on this board for feedback on the XZ-1. It looks like a killer point-and-shoot camera.

 

[ozziworld]

Do you normally prefer to shoot wide angle or macro?

The biggest difference to me is :

1. The S95 in a Fisheye or Recsea housing gives you better Wide Angle options (Wet Lens) and good Macro options.

2. The G Series gives you better Macro performance (with the same Wet Lens ) and limited options with Wide Angle (Wet Lens) with either ikelite or canon housings.

I think the sTTL vs. True TTL is academic and in practice both seem to yield good results.

I have the FIX S90 with Inon UFL165AD (Ultra-wide) and 2x Inon UCL165ADs (Macro) and love the ease at which I can change lenses underwater. I believe the Recsea S95 would have the same benefits plus HD video.

Best is you check what lenses are available that will let you do what you want to do and get the housing that will best lend itself to those lenses. In my case, I actually had the lenses before I had the housing and eventually bought the Canon S90 last.

 

[Nemrod]

There are dozens of threads that address your questions in great detail. All threads that pertain to the S90 also pertain to the S95.

The G12 is not a good choice for wide angle as there is no wide angle lens (wet mount) that will work with it except for the dry port Fisheye lens, which is an excellent combination however.

Both cameras do decent macro with the G series seeming to have better focus.

The Ikelite housings for either the G or S are lacking, one is too big (G), the other is lacking full control capability (S).

The Oly is a nice camera but also seems challenged for wide angle as the only working option is a rare Oly lens that is very large and heavy and expensive and only a 100 degree lens at that, no corrective dome available.

The TTL vs sTTL is a big nothing of an argument, neither the S or G have true TTL in manual mode. As well the Inon strobes, (S2000, D2000, Z240) all perform superbly in their optical slaved sTTL modes when properly set up, which is also easy to do.

N

 

[Onewolf]

I shot with a G10/Fisheye housing for a year and it is still my backup system. If I was shopping for a point/shoot right now I would have the Panasonic LX5 and Olympus XZ-1 in Nauticam housings at the top of the list. Since I have Sea&Sea YS-110A strobes I would lean towards the LX5 since it appears the XZ-1 may not support TTL with Sea&Sea strobes (2011 Compact Camera Buyers Guide).

 

[rob1967]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the advice! I've been hemming and hawing for a while now, trying to decide between the G12, the S95, or waiting for the S100. I'm ready to spring for a high end housing, either the RecSea or FX. Also on the wish list are double Inon strobes, but I will probably try to fit my SeaLife strobes to the canon rig initially, to save $$.

I think I'll go out and grab an S95 while they are still available. Nemrod and others think the S100 won't be as good as the S95 for underwater due to longer travel of the zoom lens.

I am more interested in Macro, and some say the G12 is better for Macro, but I am hoping the S95 will give good Macro with the addition of a wet lens. However, it is tempting to go for the G12 if it can give good macro without a wet lens. But the consensus seems the S95 is better because it is smaller and can take a WA wet lens more easily. Any additional thoughts / advice is appreciated!

 

[PatW]

I have been using the Canon G11. It is pretty similar to the Canon G12. As you know, the Canon G11 comes with a zoom lens. The macro feature only works at the wide part of the zoom. That means that in order to shoot macro, you have to get very close. Getting as close as required, often within a couple of inches, makes using your strobes in macro a bit problematic. Also if your subject is the least bit wary, it is going to be long gone (think of Christmas tree worms retracting). I have used an Inon macro wet lens to good effect. It lets me use the long end of the zoom so that I can shoot macro from a longer range like 12", I do not know if you can use the Inon wet lens with the Canon housing. You can use the wet lens with the Ikelite housing.

Another problem you might have is wide angle. The wide angle on the G11 is 28 mm. But it is effectively 35 mm underwater. I have found that it is really true that the closer you get to your subject the better for underwater shots. There are two reasons. There is always stuff in the water. So the closer you get, the less stuff to fuzz up the image. The second reason is that strobes have limited effective ranges. If you are shooting a large subject like a southern sting ray, hawksbill turtle, diving buddy, big grouper etc, it is really nice to get in close for your shot. I have found that the 35 mm is really not as much wide angle as I would like. Ikelite sells a wet lens that will convert the 35 mm effective back to 28 mm. It is not much, but I suppose it would help. I have not tried it. I understand that some of the more expensive housing manufacturers sell a really wide angle wet lens.

Another way to go might be to go with one of the new mirrorless systems. These systems have a sensor that is tclose to the size of a DSLR sensor which is a really good thing. The down side is these cameras are pretty expensive and they have interchangeable lenses that are not that cheap either. But they do offer many of the features of a DSLR system for less money and less size than DSLR. The Olympus Pen series is one of these. I think Nikon and Canon are coming out with systems of this sort also but I don't know if there are housings available for them. As far as I can tell, the manufacturers are treating these as a sort of compact step up from point and shoot so the cameras are not designed for sophisticated users which would be most underwater photographers.

 

[cardog]

I have been using the Canon G11. It is pretty similar to the Canon G12. As you know, the Canon G11 comes with a zoom lens. The macro feature only works at the wide part of the zoom. That means that in order to shoot macro, you have to get very close. Getting as close as required, often within a couple of inches, makes using your strobes in macro a bit problematic. Also if your subject is the least bit wary, it is going to be long gone (think of Christmas tree worms retracting). I have used an Inon macro wet lens to good effect. It lets me use the long end of the zoom so that I can shoot macro from a longer range like 12", I do not know if you can use the Inon wet lens with the Canon housing. You can use the wet lens with the Ikelite housing.

Another problem you might have is wide angle. The wide angle on the G11 is 28 mm. But it is effectively 35 mm underwater. I have found that it is really true that the closer you get to your subject the better for underwater shots. There are two reasons. There is always stuff in the water. So the closer you get, the less stuff to fuzz up the image. The second reason is that strobes have limited effective ranges. If you are shooting a large subject like a southern sting ray, hawksbill turtle, diving buddy, big grouper etc, it is really nice to get in close for your shot. I have found that the 35 mm is really not as much wide angle as I would like. Ikelite sells a wet lens that will convert the 35 mm effective back to 28 mm. It is not much, but I suppose it would help. I have not tried it. I understand that some of the more expensive housing manufacturers sell a really wide angle wet lens.

Another way to go might be to go with one of the new mirrorless systems. These systems have a sensor that is tclose to the size of a DSLR sensor which is a really good thing. The down side is these cameras are pretty expensive and they have interchangeable lenses that are not that cheap either. But they do offer many of the features of a DSLR system for less money and less size than DSLR. The Olympus Pen series is one of these. I think Nikon and Canon are coming out with systems of this sort also but I don't know if there are housings available for them. As far as I can tell, the manufacturers are treating these as a sort of compact step up from point and shoot so the cameras are not designed for sophisticated users which would be most underwater photographers.

The Oly E-PL2 is the same price as a Canon G12.....

 

[rob1967]

Thanks again for all the advice. I did think long and hard about one of the new mirror-less systems, but due to the expense of the housings and lenses, I decided to restrict my choice to a high end point and shoot. The vast array of choices is mind-boggling at times! I am trying to keep my choices narrowed down to a Canon, either S95, S100 or G12.

I do a lot local cold water diving where the viz can be bad, but there are great macro opportunities, so for me, double strobes and getting really close is something I have already figured out. I also do a fair amount of travel to remote tropical locations, so a compact system is a must.

Just when I thought I made a choice, I am undecided again! I am still tempted to wait on reviews on how the S100 performs underwater, and a friend (owner of a LDS) just told me "get the G12"!