running out of air

[bowlofpetunias]

Exactly and if there was one message I could get out to every diver it is Complacency Kills Divers. Don't count on knowing what your gas supply is.. monitor the gauge closely. Don't count on being able to recognize the amount of gas you have by how your reg breaths.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

But the most beautiful part is that one does not negate the other!

One can learn and practice "gas management" but still learn the feel of a tank low on gas by intention.

Right.
Do an OOA test in a controlled environment (a real test, not just shutting off the valve) to satisfy the morbid curiosity and confront the big ugly OOA boogy man.
Then once that's out of the way make absolutely sure that it NEVER EVER happens in real life.

 

[TMHeimer]

Exactly and if there was one message I could get out to every diver it is Complacency Kills Divers. Don't count on knowing what your gas supply is.. monitor the gauge closely. Don't count on being able to recognize the amount of gas you have by how your reg breaths.

That's all that needs to be said. Most of my dives are 30' or shallower and I'm always checking the SPG. Even after years I'm still amazed at the difference the needle moves when I decide to motor someplace really fast. Like constantly checking that a buddy is right there, you can never check your gas too frequently.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Right.
Do an OOA test in a controlled environment (a real test, not just shutting off the valve) to satisfy the morbid curiosity and confront the big ugly OOA boogy man.
Then once that's out of the way make absolutely sure that it NEVER EVER happens in real life.

I would HOPE that the modern courses teach that : "when it gets hard to breath, come up"...
. . ..

But the most beautiful part is that one does not negate the other!

One can learn and practice "gas management" but still learn the feel of a tank low on gas by intention.

:lol: Missed my point did ya :doh: I'll make it really simple. Gas management is more important than breathing a tank dry and thinking you will be able to recognize the sensation early enough to save your life! The opinion of "Just an average diver"

Back before I had an SPG, I was quite in tune with a difference in breathing when the pressure got low. It came in handy if the J-valve was in the fill position or when diving a K-valve. I tried it recently with my first reg and found I didn't notice the change like I used to.

Since I've had an SPG, I have never unintentionally ran OOA. I keep my SPG on my left D ring where I can glance at it at will, and on a number of occasions it has come in quite handy. I haven't had an SPG fail without noticeable symptoms, yet.

Bob

Not everyone teaches that way ... I train my students to consider, before they ever get in the water, how much air they'll need for the dive they're planning to do. If they have even a rough idea, then the chances of running out of air are significantly reduced because they've made bringing adequate gas a part of their dive plan.

NWGratefulDiver.com

As in many aspects of diving, being proactive will generally produce better results than being reactive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Unless you dive without an SPG and utilizing the old outmoded J-valve mechanism, there's no practical reason to intentionally empty your tank in order to see how it "feels" like sucking on a non-delivering regulator at depth on a dive. The better fundamental method for the novice open water Scuba diver is learning & practicing appropriate gas management with proper buddy team diving (i.g. Your redundant source of Air is your Buddy -stay together!)

But those who still speciously insist & want to do this moot exercise in a safe controlled, shallow confined water environment, then I recommend doing it on a regulator that"s due for an overhaul, and an air tank that's due for a Visual Inspection and/or Hydro (i.e. Any safety cognizant air station fill attendant of a dive-op will question you on why your Scuba Cylinder is reading zero pressure, and may require a visual inspection to check for water intrusion before refilling it again).

 

[scagrotto]

You risk confusing people with information that isn't being taught at this level.

You risk confusing people every time you open your mouth and say something, so if you're simply making a factual observation that's fine, though it strikes me as rather pointless without expanding on it. OTOH, if it's some kind of editorial opinion about what should or shouldn't be discussed I think it's one of the dumber things I've read in a while.

At this level, the diver needs chapter and verse to keep him/her safe in their own mind ... They need dogma to hold onto

Well, that's probably true when training dogs or idiots, but I've found that people with a bit of intelligence are better off if they understand why, instead of just being given a mantra such as "never hold your breath" or "check your SPG". A bit of background is a good thing. Sure, it's possible to get into too much detail and some people will grasp less than others, but nothing being discussed here comes anywhere close to being unusually complicated or hard to understand. Even if it did, what's the sensible alternative? Maybe users should have to register by snail mail and send certified copies of a HS or college diploma to participate in some threads? Or maybe an intelligence test, since even stupid people can work hard and get an advanced degree? In the end I think it's a lot like real diving. We can treat everybody as if they're incompetent and hold their hands or we can treat them as if their certification means they've satisfactorily met some set of minimum qualifications and can be trusted to think and to look out for themselves.

As for the original question, why bother asking other people what it feels like? As has been mentioned by several people, go out and breathe a tank dry so you can actually experience it for yourself. Do it in controlled circumstances, such as very shallow water or with a redundant source (and observant buddy) handy, but do it. It certainly can't hurt to know what it feels like as that last bit of available air gets used. That and what I said above about about understanding some background and why things are done the way they are notwithstanding, I don't actually think it's necessary to know. If you're not expecting it and paying attention you're probably not going to notice anything amiss until very late in the game if you're using modern equipment that's in good shape. If it starts getting hard to breathe it doesn't immediately mater why it's hard to breathe. The first step is to make some other arrangement so that you can breathe easily. The troubleshooting can happen later.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Unless you dive without an SPG and utilizing the old outmoded J-valve mechanism, there's no practical reason to intentionally empty your tank in order to see how it "feels" like sucking on a non-delivering regulator at depth on a dive.

There may not be a practical reason, but the OP asked what it was like. The practical thing to me would be just try it for yourself and see, all the mystery gone.

The better fundamental method for the novice open water Scuba diver is learning & practicing appropriate gas management with proper buddy team diving (i.g. Your redundant source of Air is your Buddy -stay together!)

Well they need to do that in the real world of diving. The OOA really isn't a reality they should be flirting with, and every precaution should be utilized to prevent it.
One of the holes in the buddy system as an infallible answer to ever running OOA is: what if your buddy is having the same problem and is coming to you for the same thing?

But those who still speciously insist & want to do this moot exercise in a safe controlled, shallow confined water environment, then I recommend doing it on a regulator that"s due for an overhaul, and an air tank that's due for a Visual Inspection and/or Hydro (i.e. Any safety cognizant air station fill attendant of a dive-op will question you on why your Scuba Cylinder is reading zero pressure, and may require a visual inspection to check for water intrusion before refilling it again).

Good point about the possible contamination to internals of gear.
But you know how it is, you tell a kid not to touch a stove because it's hot. Not until they touch it do they learn it's hot.
People will obsess over what it's like to run OOA. My point is, fine, go run a tank OOA so you know what it's like if it means that much to you and then you'll know. Then the fixation will be over.
Now let's move on.

 

[DevonDiver]

There's a bunch of reasons that gas might become unavailable during a dive. Some are rare and unpredictable, some are equipment related, others are simple human error. Most are avoidable.

The cause for gas delivery cessation has an impact on whether any 'symptoms' might be recognizable. In some cases you might get a progressively harder work of breathing, in others the cessation is abrupt and final.

Whatever the cause, and whatever the warning, the situation; and response, remains simple. Seek an alternative supply of breathing gas. That may be from a redundant gas source, a buddy or at the surface. You, the diver, determines which alternative source is available to you...

Probably the most common cause of OOG emergency is absolutely human error; you breath the cylinder down until no gas remains deliverable through the regulator. This occurs due to insufficient situational awareness.

Appropriate situational awareness (gas, time, depth, buddy, location, conditions, hazards) is a product of maintaining a conservative bias towards reduced dive challenge/complexity over your experience and capability. Task loading and stress degrade situational awareness. Task loading reduces with experience; and this even includes specific experience in the equipment you are using in a given dive.

Surprisingly, even the most basic entry-level diving courses provide very astute advice on how to maximize your situational awareness - basically, take it easy and dive well within your comfort zone; inside the limits of your training and experience.

That advice remains prudent no matter to what levels of technicality that your diving progresses.

Negligently running out of breathing gas underwater remains, and shall always be, the most quintessential expression of Darwin's Law provided by the scuba community....

 

[oldschoolto]

apart from an instructor shutting down a valve on me i have never run out of gas, but it is basically just sucking on nothing.

Breathe from your reg on the surface and shut the valve off while breathing, you will get the idea.

ditto.....

 

[boulderjohn]

Quote Originally Posted by lowviz

You risk confusing people with information that isn't being taught at this level.

Air depletion IS taught at this level, as has already been mentioned in this thread. It is a required on two occasions in the PADI OW curriculum, including the second confined water dive, right after students have learned the most basic skills.

 

[Charles2]

Good, thought provoking thread. I have never experienced an out of air (OOA) situation unless you count breathing the tank down to the reserve level on the "J" valve. As I remember, there were three or four breaths that were remarkably more difficult, and then we pulled the reserve rod and headed up. I think that I will go out and see for myself what a real OOA feels like today just for the experience. I also think that I will continue to plan every dive so that I will hopefully never experience an unintentional OOA.