Round 2 Gluing PU Rings for Ultima DGS

[rob.mwpropane]

This is a bit of a spin off from this thread, but I thought it might help if people searched for it, and my original thread of making cheap dry gloves turned into gluuing the PU rings for the Ultima DGS....so I was a bit OT in my own thread. This does show the cutting of the neoprene suit and obviously my first failed attempt.
DIY Dry Gloves

My 1st attempt at gluing the rings coupled with my complete lack of experience resulted in a failure The rings didn't hold, they were glued but during pressure testing there were a few leaks. Thankfully adding heat to the inside of the ring (I was told not to heat the neoprene as it could cause small pin holes all over the place) allowed the neoprene and the rings to be pulled apart. Holy crap was that a painstaking job. Heat, burn fingers pull and then heat some more, burn some more fingers and pull some more. I'd rank it pretty close to getting a set of gloves loaded onto the Ultima system. It probably took me at least 1.5 hours to get both rings pulled apart. Hindsight and all, I should have used more layers of glue. Please learn from my mistakes and use more layers.

Here's my 2nd attempt. I built a form from 3" PVC as seen in the pictures. It fits into the PU ring perfect and even gets tight. I then used duct tape to bring the level of the cuff up to match the inside of the ring. You should be able to see this in the pictures. I also glued everything with the Ultima hard ring installed into the system (without the silicone seal) and this seemed to help a lot as well. I've seen people just use a form or nothing at all on youtube, this is just what worked for me. I sanded both the ring and the neoprene with 120 grit sandpaper, I believer a little rougher would have been fine as well. I rolled the neoprene back as seen in the pictures, measured the width of the PU rings and taped off the suit side just a hair larger. I also taped plastic around the sleeve of the suit so as to not get any glue on the suit. I can not stress it enough. The better my prep job was the smoother the gluing went. I opted to do both cuffs independently of one another so I could take my time, but reality is I could of done this all from beginning to end in about 1.5 hours, and that includes prep and cleanup. Once everything was prepped I wiped everything down with MEK twice as I've seen other people do. I followed the recommended instructions for the glue from DRiS website and started with gluing the cuff. I waited about 12 min in between layers of glue and did 4 layers on the cuff side before I did my 1st on the PU ring side. So layer 4 of the cuff was layer 1 of the PU ring, layer 5 of the cuff was layer 2 of the PU ring. All layers were a ~ 12 min wait in between except the final layer which I gave 5 min. I used freezer bags wrapped around the PU ring and then rolled the cuff onto and got in position. Once there I slowly pulled the plastic out. Everything went really well. My first cuff I waited a little longer than 5 min for the last layer and it seemed to be harder to get the plastic from in between. On my 2nd cuff I used slightly thicker layers of glue and was rolling the cuff at the 5 min mark. This seemed to help the plastic slide out better.

All in all, this was a great project. I have less than $200 for everything and have gained a good amount of experience with the glue, so much so I wouldn't hesitate to tackle a neck seal or boots in the future.The zipper would scare me, but I'm 100% I could get it done.

Please ask if there's any questions, I'm not the 1st to do this and I'm sure I won't be the last. I leaned on a lot of good people on SB for the this project, so thanks to those and you know who you are.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

And....can't forget to give credit to my buddy for trying things out!

 

[rob.mwpropane]

So question: I believe I have a slight "seep" of a leak in my lower legs / knee region. I pressure tested but couldn't really find anything. Is there a way to add a small layer of something that would just fill in whatever pinhole is there and still be flexible? Maybe like a thin coat of aquaseal and MEK mix?

Plan is to have a spray bottle with soapy water for before or after my next dive and just fill the suit with air and have someone spray me down to see if we can find it. Still need to know a good plan of attack to seal it though...

 

[divezonescuba]

Like you I had a situation where I had a persistent leak / seep that could not be identified by pressure testing. I tried several times and was unsuccessful.

Take 1

I ended up turning a bare tech dry drysuit inside out on a long table, zipped it shut, and filled it full of water. The neck and one wrist were plugged. The suit was filled with water from the remaining sleeve. Within minutes, water began seeping thru a seam In the crotch area. Since it was still under warranty, I did not want to do anything to it myself. The manufacturer could not fix the leak and I ended up getting a different drysuit.

Take 2

My current drysuit a waterproof ex2 started leaking. Like the bare tech dry, pressure testing did not locate the leak. I tried the above technique and again the leak point was discovered. There was a leak thru an area of fabric at the waist. I recall pinching the drysuit with my buckle some time previously. According to the waterproof website this can damage the laminate membrane and cause leaks. With the weeping area identified, I coated the breathable fabric with a layer of aquaseal. That solved the problem.

The above technique is actually how drysuits work. So it should be no surprise when you find the leak. It is more inconvenient to do than a simple pressure test. So, I would only consider it necessary if the leak cannot be identified by a pressure check.

 

[Zef]

Now that you have the wrist rings and a dryglove system...mount the gloves on your suit an use one of these to block the neck:

You can then suspend your suit from a rope threaded through the eye of the buoy and inflate it.

recommend turning the suit inside out if you can.

Inflate your suit and spray it down in the area of the suspected leak with soap and water mix....it may help to add a little glycerine to the soap and water as it will make the bubbles more persistent and perhaps easier to detect the leak.

Good luck.

-Z

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Like you I had a situation where I had a persistent leak / seep that could not be identified by pressure testing. I tried several times and was unsuccessful.

Take 1

I ended up turning a bare tech dry drysuit inside out on a long table, zipped it shut, and filled it full of water. The neck and one wrist were plugged. The suit was filled with water from the remaining sleeve. Within minutes, water began seeping thru a seam In the crotch area. Since it was still under warranty, I did not want to do anything to it myself. The manufacturer could not fix the leak and I ended up getting a different drysuit.

Take 2

My current drysuit a waterproof ex2 started leaking. Like the bare tech dry, pressure testing did not locate the leak. I tried the above technique and again the leak point was discovered. There was a leak thru an area of fabric at the waist. I recall pinching the drysuit with my buckle some time previously. According to the waterproof website this can damage the laminate membrane and cause leaks. With the weeping area identified, I coated the breathable fabric with a layer of aquaseal. That solved the problem.

The above technique is actually how drysuits work. So it should be no surprise when you find the leak. It is more inconvenient to do than a simple pressure test. So, I would only consider it necessary if the leak cannot be identified by a pressure check.

Thanks for the reply!

Now that you have the wrist rings and a dryglove system...mount the gloves on your suit an use one of these to block the neck:

View attachment 578042

You can then suspend your suit from a rope threaded through the eye of the buoy and inflate it.

recommend turning the suit inside out if you can.

Inflate your suit and spray it down in the area of the suspected leak with soap and water mix....it may help to add a little glycerine to the soap and water as it will make the bubbles more persistent and perhaps easier to detect the leak.

Good luck.

-Z

Do you think it would work just as well to inflate on me and have someone spray me down with soap? I could circle with chalk and take pictures...maybe do a thin layer of aquaseal and MEK when dry. Tbh, maybe I'll get the buoy, but I'd like to try and fix it without buying anything just yet.

 

[Zef]

Thanks for the reply!



Do you think it would work just as well to inflate on me and have someone spray me down with soap? I could circle with chalk and take pictures...maybe do a thin layer of aquaseal and MEK when dry. Tbh, maybe I'll get the buoy, but I'd like to try and fix it without buying anything just yet.

It is possible that it would work but sometimes it is easier to find a leak with by turning the suit inside out as sometimes it is not the air pushing out but the water pushing in....so with the suit right side out and inflating the suit, the pressure is in the wrong direction per se for the leak to occur...think of it as micro-flap and with pressure in the suit right side out the pressure is keeping the micro-flap closed, when diving the water pressure is pushing the micro-flap open...by putting the suit inside out and then inflating the pressure in the suit will push the micro-flap open making the leak more apparent.

It wouldn't hurt anything to inflate the suit with you in it and you may get lucky and find the leak quickly.

For my suit, I had very slight leak in the seams of the heels of the socks of my suit (fusion bullet). The leak was almost imperceptible inflating and spraying soapy water on the feet of the suit...I found the leaks by submerging the feet of my suit in a bucket of water and twisting the feet to increase the pressure in that part of the suit.

Hopefully your leak will be more apparent and easy to locate.

Aquaseal should work to seal things up once found ...since this is a neoprene drysuit the impact of the aquaseal on stretchiness of the suit is not as much of a factor, but if it were my suit I would want to minimize the area it is applied to.

-Z

 

[divezonescuba]

I use small plastic flower pots to seal the wrists. Since you have a dry glove system, you could just put the gloves on.

For the neck, I use a larger plastic flower pot with a male inflator fitting.

For the inflation test, you can hook up a low pressure inflator. For the inside out water test, I have a section of tubing with a garden hose sized fitting on one end and a female inflator fitting on the other end. If you use it in the water mode, it takes a while to fill up. Sometimes, I pre fill it directly from a normal hose.

 

[Zef]

I use small plastic flower pots to seal the wrists. Since you have a dry glove system, you could just put the gloves on.

For the neck, I use a larger plastic flower pot with a male inflator fitting.

For the inflation test, you can hook up a low pressure inflator. For the inside out water test, I have a section of tubing with a garden hose sized fitting on one end and a female inflator fitting on the other end. If you use it in the water mode, it takes a while to fill up. Sometimes, I pre fill it directly from a normal hose.

Interesting....I wasnt suggesting filling the suit with water when inside out, that seems pretty extreme. I guess if nothing else works that would be a last resort for me.

Inner space explorers has a short video on finding leaks in a drysuit. It is where I got the idea to purchase a boat buoy/bumper, and glad I got one as it has served me well.

The only time one needs to add an inflation nipple anywhere is when the suit is inside out....but if the inflator valve can be removed and reinstalled on the inside out suit then that can still be used to inflate the suit.

-Z

 

[lexvil]

A quick way to find the general area of a leak it to wear some grey sweats, do a quick dip until you feel the leak and quickly get out strip off the suit and you will have close idea of the area that’s the problem, concentrate you search rather than the global approach.