Rise and Fall of the Bubble (Model) ?

[Trace Malinowski]

I preferred the board with Ross. Now when discussing decompression there is no one to present a counter argument for comparison ...

I just draw a comparison to eggs. Are they bad for us this week? How many studies have been done on eggs?

 

[rjack321]

I would be interested in knowing were on the Internet (not on ScubaBoard) I could find any existing scientific documents that would presumably summarize both sides of the argument.

You are assuming this is a two sided argument and its basically not. On one side you have Simon, David, NEDU, and basically every decompression scientist publishing in Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine, including the US Navy.

As of 2018, on the other side you have Ross. Proprietor of VPM based software.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

You are assuming this is a two sided argument and its basically not. On one side you have Simon, David, NEDU, and basically every decompression scientist publishing in Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine, including the US Navy.

As of 2018, on the other side you have Ross. Proprietor of VPM based software.

Yeah. But, none of them can dive.

 

[rjack321]

Yeah. But, none of them can dive.

Are you sure about that?
David does pretty serious dives with @PfcAJ

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Amended. Was just joking anyway.

 

[TrimixToo]

You are assuming this is a two sided argument and its basically not. On one side you have Simon, David, NEDU, and basically every decompression scientist publishing in Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine, including the US Navy.

As of 2018, on the other side you have Ross. Proprietor of VPM based software.

To be fair, V-Planner was the gold standard for quite a while. And MultiDeco, which includes GF-based plans, is excellent. Both offer easy dive planning with both planned gas consumption and also lost gas scenarios with the click of an icon, along with decent mixing software. Most of this function is also available on Android. I looked for a replacement product during Ross's Recent Rancid Rants and did not find anything as functional and flexible, so I am not yet ready to throw out the baby with the bath water. Tempted, mind you (I was horrified by the discussion and wrote the mods once or twice about it), but not ready.

 

[DavidFL]

There have been several published studies and reports of work done after the NEDU Study. See Simon Mitchell's post in this thread where he summarizes:

UTD Ratio deco discussion

And this thread contains the now publicly available UTD / Spisni study

UTD Decompression profile study results published

The scientific forum that seems to be the most common place to look is the Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine Society

 

[tridacna]

Hmm ... the way science usually works, is that on a regular basis every few years, two or three key articles come out either as "state of the art" summaries of a given field, or, more commonly now, a systematic review of the literature in relation to a given topic.

Agreed but at some point, (I'm not suggesting that that point has been reached yet), the sway of the current argument tends to have great momentum and is no longer challenged as vigorously as it once was. Flat earth, Sun no longer rotates around earth and Brett Kavanaugh likes beer. I'm certain that Deco Theory will change from a math model to an integrated physical device capable of measuring absorbed N2 in the future. But I doubt that it is the debate between SM and RH which is paramount these days.

 

[dmaziuk]

Agreed but at some point, (I'm not suggesting that that point has been reached yet), the sway of the current argument tends to have great momentum and is no longer challenged as vigorously as it once was. Flat earth, Sun no longer rotates around earth and Brett Kavanaugh likes beer. I'm certain that Deco Theory will change from a math model to an integrated physical device capable of measuring absorbed N2 in the future. But I doubt that it is the debate between SM and RH which is paramount these days.

I think biological systems are too sloppy and gooey to fit the "sun around flat earth" analogy, and in this particular case a device taking all relevant measurements in all relevant tissues wouldn't be cost-effective if at all doable. I expect we'll get to better understanding of personal fizziology and will add knobs to our computers to fine-tune them to our individual risk factors... but there you have to deal with people who turn the knobs the wrong way. Evidently, single-button zoops are too complicated already, they get bent left and right if you believe the Internet...

 

[rjack321]

To be fair, V-Planner was the gold standard for quite a while. And MultiDeco, which includes GF-based plans, is excellent. Both offer easy dive planning with both planned gas consumption and also lost gas scenarios with the click of an icon, along with decent mixing software. Most of this function is also available on Android. I looked for a replacement product during Ross's Recent Rancid Rants and did not find anything as functional and flexible, so I am not yet ready to throw out the baby with the bath water. Tempted, mind you (I was horrified by the discussion and wrote the mods once or twice about it), but not ready.

V-Planner is/was highly functional software. Decoplanner has always been a close second, but its not as useful because it has never done constant ppO2.
I own and use Multideco because all my deco dives are on CCR and I haven't found an alternative either.