Ripped off for my AOW training

[ScubaInChicago]

I never knew instructors made such little money...AOW should be taught by a card holding union members making an honest wage (with benefits of course).

 

[Bob DBF]

And what I really want is for them to do Rescue first. Then Advanced. No diver really needs Advanced in my opinion. It's a want to do. Everyone should have Rescue. That should be a must.

Besides, no one will ask about AOW if you show the Rescue card.



Bob
--------------------------------------

One could have a whole discussion just on the unintended hazards of photography/videography. I believe a camera is the most dangerous piece of equipment a diver can own.

 

[Diver0001]

Scubaboard members are not the norm. The instructors who post here are far more conscientious than any PADI instructors I have met in real life. I admit I haven't met a statistically significant sample of instructors, but I have hung around enough dive ops and had enough instructor acquaintances to have developed a belief that most AOW courses are not taught by you people.

I took AOW in 1985 so it was a little different back then, but it included the deep specialty, the night specialty, the navigation specialty, the S&R specialty and a few other dives. I don't remember exactly how many dives we did, but it was definitely more than 16. When I came out of AOW I felt that I had learned something.

Funny thing is, that even though it isn't *required* today, the same approach is still allowed..... and that's the model for AOW that I use. I'm not going to certify someone to dive to 30m who has been there once on a leash... If someone takes my AOW course they'll be signing up for something that will challenge them..... I know I can't *force* them but I can be clear about how I believe it should be done and leave the decision to them..... if they choose to go through with it and decide to quit 1/2 way then I can write them a referral.... but if they decide to get their shoulders under it an accept the challenge then they'll come out of AOW a better diver, which is all I want....

R..

---------- Post added November 26th, 2013 at 11:57 PM ----------

I never knew instructors made such little money...AOW should be taught by a card holding union members making an honest wage (with benefits of course).

For most instructors, if they made minimum wage they would feel like they won the lottery. Nobody does this to make money. With few exceptions, we all do it because we love diving.

Period.

R..

 

[boulderjohn]

If you are paying for an instructor who works for a dive operation and is not fully independent, it is foolish to think that all or even most of the money is going to the instructor. The shop takes by far most of that money to cover its overhead and glean a profit for itself. Here is a true example of that I am talking about.

Let's say that you take an OW course from my shop. Because we live in Colorado with little decent local diving, most of our students just do the classroom and pool work with us, and for those who do the OW dives as well, it is priced separately. So let us say you chose to pay several hundred dollars for those OW dives, and you are in a class of four students. Here is what it is like for the instructor that weekend:

The instructor arises before dawn and heads to the shop to load the gear in the van. He drives an hour to the OW site, a shallow, muddy lake. He empties the truck and puts together the material for the required dive platform. He gets dressed and takes the platform out to depth, and then he runs some line so that student can have a decent tour without getting lost. By then the students have arrived and have started to dress out. The dive briefing begins, and class begins. Because of PADI standards for low visibility instruction, the group of four must be broken in half for much of the instruction--the instructor must be in close contact with students at all times, whether on the surface or underwater, so a group of four cannot be managed for much of that time. Once the first day's diving is done, the instructor breaks down the gear and brings the platform in--rules do not allow it out overnight. By the time he gets back to the shop, he has put in a 9-10 hour day.

The process is repeated the next day.

So the instructor put in about 18-20 hours that weekend. How much of the hundreds of dollars each student paid does he get? $35 per student. The instructor earned $140 that weekend, a bit less than minimum wage. If he is lucky enough to get a full class of 8 students, he has the luxury of having a DM to assist him, and he can get close to double minimum wage. Wow!

And when you see him out there with 2 students, those of you in the high math class will realize that he gets a little less than half of minimum wage. (and remember that instructors are rarely tipped.)

So there is the glamorous life of a scuba instructor. What a get-rich scheme it is!

 

[Kfinn27]

OP here following up on what has become a very interesting and meandering thread. Here are a few more details to help fill in the blanks.


- The PADI AOW class consisted of 5 dives: Peak Buoyancy, Navigation, Fish Identification, Deep Dive, Boat Dive.


- I was not given the choice of picking my electives. I would not have picked fish identification and “boat” dive - those are not skills in my opinion.


- First 3 dives were beach dives, with the final 2 (deep and boat) taking place from a boat. Given the fact that I was on a boat only one of the days means that the $400 rate was unreasonable.


- I decided to get the AOW cert because I felt that I needed it given that I am generally a vacation diver. My boyfriend has his AOW and we encountered a few issues with dive ops trying to place us with beginner groups while diving because of my lack of AOW. I wanted to get the cert so that we’d be on equal ground going forward.


- I went to my LDS for the cert - same one that certified me for OW. I thought they were good for OW, just didn’t think the same standards would be used for AOW.


- My biggest complaint is the lack of the deep dive. I was hoping to experience deeper depths in a “learning” environment so that I am prepared for deeper diving to come. 62 feet might qualify as technically “deep”, but only going to that depth for a skill class is negligible in my opinion.


Takeaways: I’m glad I’m done with the AOW cert but am disappointed that the only takeaway is that I could have taught myself by reading a book and practicing more. I wish I had more information about the dive shop’s cert class before I went into the process. Lesson learned!

 

[ScubaInChicago]

So the instructor put in about 18-20 hours that weekend. How much of the hundreds of dollars each student paid does he get? $35 per student. The instructor earned $140 that weekend, a bit less than minimum wage. If he is lucky enough to get a full class of 8 students, he has the luxury of having a DM to assist him, and he can get close to double minimum wage. Wow!

And when you see him out there with 2 students, those of you in the high math class will realize that he gets a little less than half of minimum wage. (and remember that instructors are rarely tipped.)

So there is the glamorous life of a scuba instructor. What a get-rich scheme it is!

$116.00/hr sounds slightly better.

---------- Post added November 26th, 2013 at 05:37 PM ----------

- First 3 dives were beach dives, with the final 2 (deep and boat) taking place from a boat. Given the fact that I was on a boat only one of the days means that the $400 rate was unreasonable.

If the class included the boat charter, you got a screaming deal and I hope you tipped well.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

How much Instructors make per student varies by region. I know some that are making more than $35 per student. Inland locations that don't have as big of a customer base, are going to be less, of course.

Either way, Instructors aren't really making big money teaching diving. As has been pointed out previously, most are doing it because they love diving.

That love is costing as much as it earns you.
The payback is in the intangibles, and the fulfillment in it.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[boulderjohn]

- My biggest complaint is the lack of the deep dive. I was hoping to experience deeper depths in a “learning” environment so that I am prepared for deeper diving to come. 62 feet might qualify as technically “deep”, but only going to that depth for a skill class is negligible in my opinion.

And I believe that is a legitimate concern. Here is the problem: it can be hard to do any better than that in some places.

Here in Colorado, our deepest local diving is about 35 feet. I have heard some people say that in that location, there is a deeper spot where you can get the 60 feet if you correct for altitude. I think that is BS. First of all, I don't think that spot exists, and secondly, I don't believe the depth for AOW deep dive is an altitude-adjusted depth. We therefore really can't do AOWs here very easily. One option is to go to a place in Utah where we can get a whopping 65 feet, even without the altitude adjustment. I don't believe in that. I believe the diver should get closer to the 100 foot maximum. I push people to go to New Mexico instead--a 6-7 hour drive. There is a place there where you can get all the way to 80 feet--85 if you get down deep into the deep corner. Nearby there is another place where you can get as much depth as you want, and that is what I prefer. That last place, though, is on private property, and only a handful of instructors (fortunately including me) have permission to enter.

The point of that last paragraph is that a lot of people really have trouble teaching an AOW class with a legitimate deep dive. You don't mention where you did this training--was a legitimate deep site available to you?

 

[RJP]

It's too simple:
If you walk into a shop and ask to sign up for their advanced boat trips, they are going to tell you that you have to be an Advanced diver in order to do so.

True at my PADI 5-Star LDS. Of course our "advanced boat trips" go to the Andrea Doria, U-869, Texas Tower, etc... so you better have more than an AOW card to be considered an "advanced" diver.

:d

 

[TONY CHANEY]

OP here following up on what has become a very interesting and meandering thread. Here are a few more details to help fill in the blanks.


- The PADI AOW class consisted of 5 dives: Peak Buoyancy, Navigation, Fish Identification, Deep Dive, Boat Dive.


- I was not given the choice of picking my electives. I would not have picked fish identification and “boat” dive - those are not skills in my opinion.


- First 3 dives were beach dives, with the final 2 (deep and boat) taking place from a boat. Given the fact that I was on a boat only one of the days means that the $400 rate was unreasonable.


- I decided to get the AOW cert because I felt that I needed it given that I am generally a vacation diver. My boyfriend has his AOW and we encountered a few issues with dive ops trying to place us with beginner groups while diving because of my lack of AOW. I wanted to get the cert so that we’d be on equal ground going forward.


- I went to my LDS for the cert - same one that certified me for OW. I thought they were good for OW, just didn’t think the same standards would be used for AOW.


- My biggest complaint is the lack of the deep dive. I was hoping to experience deeper depths in a “learning” environment so that I am prepared for deeper diving to come. 62 feet might qualify as technically “deep”, but only going to that depth for a skill class is negligible in my opinion.


Takeaways: I’m glad I’m done with the AOW cert but am disappointed that the only takeaway is that I could have taught myself by reading a book and practicing more. I wish I had more information about the dive shop’s cert class before I went into the process. Lesson learned!

Fully interstood and thanks for your reply. I too am pissed that 1) you could not pick your classes and 2) the deep dive cert to only a depth of 60'. Pure BS!