Rights and Responsibilities Between Buddy Divers

[markmud]

Hello All,

Scenario (based on conjecture--not a real life incident--for me anyway):

1. Two certified and experienced divers decide to buddy-up for a wall dive. The wall is dead vertical and in excess of 100 fathoms deep.
   1. Both divers have in excess of 100 dives in similar conditions and both have certs in excess of AOW.
   2. This is a rec dive; and,
      1. it is NOT a tech or staged decompression dive.
2. One buddy is breathing 21% (air) and the other diver is breathing 36% EANx.

Buddy Briefing:

1. The EANx diver explains to the air diver that he is using 36% nitrox and that his MOD (1.4 ATA, PP) is 95 fsw. He further explains that his Maximum Depth (1.6 ATA, PP) is 114 fsw.
2. The EANx diver explains that he has not dived in over a month and has not dived at MOD (1.4 ATA, PP) for many months.
   1. This is pertinent because conditioning and exposure does increase a diver's tolerance to high PP of oxygen and nitrogen. It is not a method for safely exceeding MOD or Maximum Depth; however, a diver's tolerance to oxygen and nitrogen can be increased.
3. The buddy responds that it is OK to exceed 1.6 ATA PP of oxygen as the Teams do it all the time, and in fact dive with a PP of oxygen at 2.O ATA.
4. The EANx diver responds that he will not exceed 95 fsw to save his buddy. He then states that the maximum depth for this dive should be 90 fsw and no deeper.
5. The air diver agrees and the two splash and dive the wall.

Questions:

1. If the air diver violates the dive plan and descends to 115 fsw where he promptly gets in trouble and needs help, is the EANx diver morally obligated to make an attempt to save his buddy even though he is at some risk of experiencing a CNS hit?
2. What if the air diver descends to 125 fsw and gets in trouble (in excess of 1.6 ATA PP oxygen for the EANx diver)?
3. If during the Buddy Briefing, the EANx diver offers the air diver a complete pony rig, and the air diver refuses, would that change your opinion? (obviously, the pony rig would only be a factor for this question if the primary system failed or an OOA situation was causative)

Thanks,

markm

 

[84CJ7]

I flat out tell people I dive with in our pre dive discussion that if they do something impressively stupid in either the up or down direction I will follow within safe limitations at a safe rate. Your scenario would fall under that and the "buddy" would be screwed and better be able to self rescue.

I also warn people that if they panic and put me in danger trying to save themselves I will treat them like any other attacker.

 

[FM1520]

deleted

 

[mathauck0814]

1. ...is the EANx diver morally obligated to make an attempt to save his buddy ...?

How does one establish a moral obligation?

 

[TSandM]

Oxygen toxicity is a product of both elevated ppO2 and time. I'd be willing to exceed my MOD to at least 1.6 to aid someone with whom I'd agreed to buddy up. On the other hand, how did he get to 115 without me making a fuss and trying to get him back? Let alone 125 . . . If I've tried to signal him and he's appeared to get the signals and blow me off, he's on his own. If he's gotten hopelessly narced at 95 and has drifted down, my bad for not having intervened before he got that deep, and I'd probably try to retrieve him.

Don't make a second victim is the central creed of rescue. That doesn't just involve being good at rescue skills; it means situational awareness good enough to prevent a disaster situation from ever occurring. In the posited scenario, the EAN diver did what he should have done during the pre-dive. If the "buddy" violates the agreement knowingly and willfully, he is owed very little. If he violates it because he's not capable of understanding what he's done (ill, narced, or otherwise incapacitated) then I believe the buddy does have a moral obligation to assume increased risk to intervene.

BTW, as far as I know, there is NO evidence that you can build a tolerance to oxygen toxicity.

 

[ajduplessis]

Rescue is a risky business!! Small things become massive issues in seconds. It is extremely difficult to make hard and fast calulations without getting "emotionally/morally" involved. When do you go and when do you stop?!? What would have happened If I did not try? It's a call only you can make at that momment in time.....

On the PO2 topic. Each and everyone reacts differently to PO2 on different days, conditions and so on. I was in a chamber to treat a muscle injury (modified tbl 5). They hammer you with high PPO2=3 with air breaks every 20min. Must be safe then to exceed 1.6???? Nope!!! I will not even attempt exceeding 1.6 while submerged unless I have nothing else to breath.

Within the recreational space (in my book at least, also applies to tech) when a buddy violates an agreed dive plan, he/she is on their own! Will I react that way when it actually happens?????? Don't know and therefore I will rather solo than dive with an stranger.

 

[jadairiii]

1. .....
   1. This is pertinent because conditioning and exposure does increase a diver's tolerance to high PP of oxygen and nitrogen. It is not a method for safely exceeding MOD or Maximum Depth; however, a diver's tolerance to oxygen and nitrogen can be increased....

First off you are wrong on the point above.

Second, your hypothetical dive is not a buddy dive but two solo divers with different goals. As a team you monitor your buddy so they don't exceed the depth so as not to get into the CF in the first place. After the dive discussion they should find new buddies.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

The reality is that some people probably have a higher tolerance to high PP of oxygen than others- however this doesn't mean there is an acclimation effect.

If the Nitrox diver was smart, he would have his pony filled with air. He could go on the pony, shoot down to 125 or a little deeper, provide assistance, haul butt back up to a safe depth, switch back to nitrox and make a direct ascent. I would help the air diver.

Also, depending on the nature of the problem, the nitrox diver could use the air diver's octopus at the deeper portion of the dive. I would most definitely take on some risk to save someone.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The buddy responds that it is OK to exceed 1.6 ATA PP of oxygen as the Teams do it all the time, and in fact dive with a PP of oxygen at 2.O ATA.

... that's a red flag that would make me decide not to do this dive with this person ... in part because it shows a willingness to exceed my safe diving limits, and more because it demonstrates an unhealthy obsession with depth.

I'd either find another buddy, opt out of the dive, or ... since you have a pony ... decide to go solo.

There is no moral obligation to help anyone who willingly breaks a dive plan and puts himself in a situation where you have to take unnecessary risks to rescue him. First rule of rescue is "don't create a second victim" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Billy Northrup]

I'm curious what the OP meant by rights.