"Riding your Computer Up" vs. "Lite Deco"

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A huge number say they learned to dive years before, got married, had children...

That was the tightest, financially, for me, if I was a destination diver I would have been out of luck. As it was, we were an hour or so from the ocean and we love to camp. Other than at times wearing a wetsuit that was laughingly called thermal protection, it was fun. The fact that I was/am a hunter, helped offset the budget so I could replace gear occasionally.

Way back when I was moving between coasts, it did take the fun out of diving only having mud holes to dive while living in middle of the country. I could see finding another hobby if I had to stay there and was not destination diving.

If you don't love diving, it is easy to find a reason to give it up.


Bob
 
Because the RDP did not include decompression at all, once you violated a limit you were completely off the table, and they had to find a way to get you back on it.

I think it's a useful piece of information for "when all else fails" scenario -- with the understanding that one should never get to that point. But if one does...
 
A huge number say they learned to dive years before, got married, had children

I always wanted to try diving just never had the guts to get started, then I did a discover course in a local pool and I knew I wanted to do it. My brother and I signed up for course, just happened to be about a month after my daughter was born....oops

Let's just say diving has caused a little bit of heartburn with my wife. She admitted, that she just mostly just worries about me. My response was you never minded when I was golfing a lot, I could just as easily get hurt on a golf course. I'm pretty fortunate that I don't have to have to travel to dive (dive boat is 10 minutes from the house) and I get every other Friday off. So I'm still able to dive (although not nearly as much as I'd like) and it doesn't really interfere with weekend family time.
 
I could just as easily get hurt on a golf course. .
lets see if your life insurance policy agent sees it the same way ;-)
 
Let's just say diving has caused a little bit of heartburn with my wife. She admitted, that she just mostly just worries about me. My response was you never minded when I was golfing a lot, I could just as easily get hurt on a golf course. I'm pretty fortunate that I don't have to have to travel to dive (dive boat is 10 minutes from the house) and I get every other Friday off. So I'm still able to dive (although not nearly as much as I'd like) and it doesn't really interfere with weekend family time.

DiverDownD3 - based on your avatar, were an Aircraft Director? If so, I suspect scuba diving, much less golf, should have posed the least worry to your wife. This coming from a Shooter on the IKE, TR and LINCOLN.
 
DiverDownD3 - based on your avatar, were an Aircraft Director? If so, I suspect scuba diving, much less golf, should have posed the least worry to your wife. This coming from a Shooter on the IKE, TR and LINCOLN.
Not in the service. I'm a civil service engineer and I work on the Hawkeye and Greyhound programs. Has been my background on my computer for years.
I nearly crap myself reading half the HAZREPs that come across my desk...lol
 
So, by now, I should know better than to open an unread ScubaBoard thread with over 600 responses, but I did and I read them all... but, to the community's credit, pretty interesting.

A few of you brought up the important point (IMHO) that NDL is a fuzzy line... more like a broad expanse... that divers should adhere to with caveats of fatigue, warmth and level of fitness. Personally, I think that the moment you strap on compressed air (of any mixture) and submerge yourself into water, you incur some form of decompression malady, however slight. But that's the way I approach diving.

I have a dive buddy that has been bent twice well below NDL. He's done the chamber rides. We still dive together (he likes having a buddy and I oblige), but we are limited to only to around 1 ATM (33 ft) and he's always on NITROX. Whether it was DCS or DCI, he doesn't know, his doctors didn't know and I certainly don't know. I will say that he is a very good diver and that his skills are impeccable. You could probably throw him into a pool with a Fundies class and he would rock. Lung overexpansion? I don't see him falling into that. Yet, he's been bent twice from rec depths. Why?

Perhaps some of you know folks like this. I consider the whole NDL thing to be more like a Bell Curve, inasmuch as some folks are more sensitive to N2 loading than others, with my friend, unfortunately, existing on the left side of that Bell Curve. Most of us are in the middle and a few of you are outliers on the right side (lucky you!).

Even if we could measure N2 loading in situ, and not by estimating your tissue loading on a dive computer, we still wouldn't understand how that level of loading would impact an individual. One could develop a baseline through anecdoctal evidence through many, many dives, but in the end, its only an estimate.

No-deco, Lite-deco... there is always a risk that is personal and can't be guaranteed by computers or tables... no matter who created them. Fortunately for most of us, they all seem to work okay.
 
A few of you brought up the important point (IMHO) that NDL is a fuzzy line... more like a broad expanse...

I think that the issue of terminology did something to add confusion to the debate.

An NDL is determined by the mathematics of a given, specific, decompression algorithm. It's not a grey area. It's not fuzzy. It's a very clear number on a table or computer screen.

Different algorithms provide different NDL for otherwise identical dive parameters. In addition, most algorithms can be made more conservative via manual settings - reducing the NDL.

However, DCS presentation itself IS a grey area. There are a myriad of known factors that can vary the potential onset and severity ...and probably quite a few unknown factors also.

It's important to recognise that diving within a given algorithm NDL is not a guaranteed assurance that you won't get DCS.

Pertinent to some stances in this debate, it's also correct to recognize that exceeding an NDL is also not a guaranteed assurance that you will get DCS.

Divers increasingly have the freedom to select an NDL for their diving. Gone are the days when the only choice for most divers was between a PADI table NDL and a US Navy table derived NDL.

There are now dozens of dive computers on the market, running many different algorithms... each calculating more conservative premises aggressive diving limits.

Very few recreational divers select a computer based on algorithm concerns. The algorithm is barely mentioned in most dive computer advertising. When it is mentioned, most divers aren't knowledgeable enough to place it into a personal context or risk consideration.

Personally, I think that the moment you strap on compressed air (of any mixture) and submerge yourself into water, you incur some form of decompression malady, however slight.

I'd agree that any dive has physiological effects on the body; including effects that persist post-dive. This includes the formation of bubbles.

However, those physiological effects may not be significant enough to create diagnostic signs or symptoms according to the current criteria of DCS. That does not mean that these effects are non-damaging in ways, as yet, not understood by hyperbaric medicine.

I have a dive buddy that has been bent twice well below NDL... , he's been bent twice from rec depths. Why?

There's undoubtedly physiological factors that make some individuals highly prone to DCS. Vice-versa, there's individuals that can do extraordinarily aggressive diving and seem near-immune to DCS.

This is why the general advice is always to dive conservatively. Historically, that's been through staying comfortably within an NDL. In the age of diving computers and varied algorithms, it also means choosing a conservative algorithm and/or setting for an algorithm.

Obviously, it takes significant diving experience to determine your own personal risk factors with DCS. Each dive adds to your individual sample... your personal statistics.

I'd suggest that it takes many hundreds, if not thousands, of dives to confidently determine your general susceptibility to DCS.

Even then, your susceptibility will vary depending on many factors, not least your age, general health and fitness. A prudent diver should expect increasing susceptibility as they get older and/or if their diving habits change.

Paying attention to your post-dive vitality may help a quicker understanding of your susceptibility, without the need to push your 'sampling' to the level where you need hyperbaric medical treatment.

Obviously, to achieve this requires both experience and astute observation.

No-deco, Lite-deco... there is always a risk that is personal and can't be guaranteed by computers or tables... no matter who created them. Fortunately for most of us, they all seem to work okay.

But that still sucks for the few it doesn't work for.

It pays to stay very conservative until you have a high degree of confidence in understanding your own DCS susceptiblity. Many divers erring towards aggressive diving seem to underestimate the time and parameters needed to have that real confidence.

The issue with 'lite deco' isn't so much about physiological factors. Undertaking effective staged decompression should still dictate a reasonably low diffused inert gas volume on surfacing.

The DCS risk with 'lite' deco stems from whether or not the diver is competently able and properly equipped to guarantee that they won't reach the surface with a harmful volume of inert gas in their body.

Creating that guarantee is what polarizes 'lite' deco into a potentially very safe or a very risky diving approach.
 
. . .
Perhaps some of you know folks like this. I consider the whole NDL thing to be more like a Bell Curve, inasmuch as some folks are more sensitive to N2 loading than others, with my friend, unfortunately, existing on the left side of that Bell Curve. Most of us are in the middle and a few of you are outliers on the right side (lucky you!).
. . .

I like to imagine it as a bell curve. A further twist is that one's position in the curve or susceptibility to DCS is believed to vary from day to day. It's been said that one could get bent doing the same dive they had done many times before without getting bent. So even the bell curve is fuzzy. Talk about a moving target!
 
What's even fuzzier is the we don't know were we are on the bell curve. I bet some of us think we are in the higher distribution when in reality we may be just average or below. Dive conservatively until you have an idea where you may fall.

Awaiting my doppler bubble score....
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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