Richie Kohler accused of looting
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Ah ... no ... that's an incomplete list of the wrecks in Lake Washington. There's a lot more than that down there.
Check out the Puget Sound page ... DCS Website 17 ... and that's not a complete listing either.
But of course, the east coast DOES have more wrecks ... that's not what I was disputing. I was disputing the statement that we didn't have ANY wrecks ... or that all we dived was rowboats and 40-foot fishing boats. Definitely ain't the case.
Out here a lot of the ships that go down are too deep for divers to access ... the topography's way different. You don't have to be very far offshore here to be in water too deep for any kind of diving. In the east you can go out for miles and miles and still be in water just a couple hundred feet deep. Last week-end I was diving a wreck at 200 feet that was less than a quarter-mile offshore.
And a lot of our wrecks are in places the public doesn't know about. I dive off a boat that has side-scan sonar ... we know the general vicinity of a lot of wrecks, but it's up to us to find them. And we don't exactly publish their location when we do ... for the very reasons that are being discussed in this thread.
Brian does have a point that the mentality is different between east coast and west coast ... out here if you took a charter out to dive a wreck and you came up with a "souvenir" the chances are pretty high that the crew would not allow you aboard with it ... that's just frowned on here, and a lot of charters make you agree to a no-take policy before they'll take you out.
But it's not because we lack wrecks to dive ... it's because the diving culture here is one that discourages people from taking stuff off the wrecks ... after all, next week they're gonna want to bring a different group of divers out to see what you saw.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
just had time to wade through this thread, we've been out wreck hunting- oops ,am I allowed to find any more? Should i tell anyone if we had ? ( we did actually , two this time) What a lot of fuss about nothing!
if it wasn't for Mr Rondeau trying desparately to make a name for himself slagging off RK, we wouldn't even have this thread. I love the way he describes himself as CEO and President of his company - sounds like Boeing- not a crappy dive shop
Firstly the Akela is a post war frieighter, probably sunk 30years, the wreck nicknnamed SS Carrie is even newer, there are 1984 batteries aboard, and Tottori Maru ( ID confirmed ) is not a wargrave.
{is there a museum for crappy postwar frighter artifacts? perhaps i should start one - make myself rich - because running a tec liveaboard finding new wrecks is great fun but not financially rewarding. perhaps i should give up, get a proper job and just winge about people who are having the fun}
All three lie in international water and we will continue to take divers there and they will probably, if that is their whim, take a souvenir or two - and good luck to them!
USS Lagarto, however , is strictly look only - you only have my word for that unless you want to shell out for a trip and see for yourself
I'm glad to see Mr Rondeau has been exposed for the tosser he undoubtably is, and it also seems that even though we agree to dis-agree about the artifact issue , we all agree CDNN is a load of rubbish. by the way, my sources from BC say RR puts plastic toys and a toilet on the reef to entertain his divers, is this true? i take brass up and he puts plastic in - who's the villain?
taking a telegraph is the same as human trafficking? i wonder how many lives I've destroyed over the years, will i ever sleep again? - total nonsense.
if i dived the Great Lakes, ships were historical and preserved, i'd be the first guy to say hands off, but i'm not, i'm in the gulf of Thailand with even post war wrecks crumbling into the sand day by day.
no secrets from MV Trident, as the Sex Pistols said, all publicity's good publicity.
if you want some proper wreck exploration, won' t be offended by a few plates and a porthole on the dive deck, check out Tech Thailand and come for a dive
Rant over,
Jamie Macleod , MV Trident
Tech Thailand
if it wasn't for Mr Rondeau trying desparately to make a name for himself slagging off RK, we wouldn't even have this thread. I love the way he describes himself as CEO and President of his company - sounds like Boeing- not a crappy dive shop
Firstly the Akela is a post war frieighter, probably sunk 30years, the wreck nicknnamed SS Carrie is even newer, there are 1984 batteries aboard, and Tottori Maru ( ID confirmed ) is not a wargrave.
{is there a museum for crappy postwar frighter artifacts? perhaps i should start one - make myself rich - because running a tec liveaboard finding new wrecks is great fun but not financially rewarding. perhaps i should give up, get a proper job and just winge about people who are having the fun}
All three lie in international water and we will continue to take divers there and they will probably, if that is their whim, take a souvenir or two - and good luck to them!
USS Lagarto, however , is strictly look only - you only have my word for that unless you want to shell out for a trip and see for yourself
I'm glad to see Mr Rondeau has been exposed for the tosser he undoubtably is, and it also seems that even though we agree to dis-agree about the artifact issue , we all agree CDNN is a load of rubbish. by the way, my sources from BC say RR puts plastic toys and a toilet on the reef to entertain his divers, is this true? i take brass up and he puts plastic in - who's the villain?
taking a telegraph is the same as human trafficking? i wonder how many lives I've destroyed over the years, will i ever sleep again? - total nonsense.
if i dived the Great Lakes, ships were historical and preserved, i'd be the first guy to say hands off, but i'm not, i'm in the gulf of Thailand with even post war wrecks crumbling into the sand day by day.
no secrets from MV Trident, as the Sex Pistols said, all publicity's good publicity.
if you want some proper wreck exploration, won' t be offended by a few plates and a porthole on the dive deck, check out Tech Thailand and come for a dive
Rant over,
Jamie Macleod , MV Trident
Tech Thailand
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Great the post is back on topic.
Sorry about the Rant Ann but it needed saying...
The wrecks that CDNN refer to would not be under any public scrutiny at all if it wasn't fro the trident guys...Simply put they are the only people out there discovering them.
I can assure you they are not looting that would insinuate they have loot which in turn would suggest they are making lots of money from selling artifacts Indiana Jones style.Judging from how difficult it is to get a round out of them when they are back on dry land its not true.
Either they have a huge mattress stuffed with cash from ill gotten gains or the truth is much simpler, after spending thousands of dollars on fuel ,Hours if not days investigating and over twenty years getting accepted and being able to communicate with Thai fisherman etc, they are collecting a few portholes that otherwise would sink in the silt undiscovered.
Its easy to say you are looking for or investigating something that was lost as Rondeau has but actually doing it is a different matter.
To my Knowledge Trident is the only equipped non commercial vessel able to operate in the Gulf of Thailand and actually invest Time and money in doing so.
The fact that an experienced diver such as R K decides to holiday/dive with these guys clearly shows they are at the cutting edge of wreck exploration.
For the armchair divers that have discovered only a different colored belly button fluff whilst decompressing on their sofa,Book a ticket to Thailand pay your money to Trident crew and support them in rediscovering history...Then make your mind up if they are scuba looters or pioneers.
Sorry about the Rant Ann but it needed saying...
The wrecks that CDNN refer to would not be under any public scrutiny at all if it wasn't fro the trident guys...Simply put they are the only people out there discovering them.
I can assure you they are not looting that would insinuate they have loot which in turn would suggest they are making lots of money from selling artifacts Indiana Jones style.Judging from how difficult it is to get a round out of them when they are back on dry land its not true.
Either they have a huge mattress stuffed with cash from ill gotten gains or the truth is much simpler, after spending thousands of dollars on fuel ,Hours if not days investigating and over twenty years getting accepted and being able to communicate with Thai fisherman etc, they are collecting a few portholes that otherwise would sink in the silt undiscovered.
Its easy to say you are looking for or investigating something that was lost as Rondeau has but actually doing it is a different matter.
To my Knowledge Trident is the only equipped non commercial vessel able to operate in the Gulf of Thailand and actually invest Time and money in doing so.
The fact that an experienced diver such as R K decides to holiday/dive with these guys clearly shows they are at the cutting edge of wreck exploration.
For the armchair divers that have discovered only a different colored belly button fluff whilst decompressing on their sofa,Book a ticket to Thailand pay your money to Trident crew and support them in rediscovering history...Then make your mind up if they are scuba looters or pioneers.
Sorry for the delay, I have only just had the time to catch up and reply to these posts. I think the issue of whether or not to recover artifacts, and the LEGALITY of such endeavors has been beaten to a pulp in this thread, valid arguments (and mostly sane) representing both sides of the coin. I will not try to convert anyone, and I respect the opinions of those who disagree with me.
The expedition members of my charters in the Gulf of Thailand did nothing illegal, despite some of the opinions posted here, and the outright falsehoods posted on bogus and “Enquirer” type websites. Both admiralty and local laws were adhered to and the folks at MV Trident run a legal technical dive operation. We located new wreck sites, identifying two of them, and we recovered artifacts, all within the scope of the law and in international waters. None of which have wargrave status.
The expedition members of my charters in the Gulf of Thailand did nothing illegal, despite some of the opinions posted here, and the outright falsehoods posted on bogus and “Enquirer” type websites. Both admiralty and local laws were adhered to and the folks at MV Trident run a legal technical dive operation. We located new wreck sites, identifying two of them, and we recovered artifacts, all within the scope of the law and in international waters. None of which have wargrave status.
The bones of the crew from the shipwreck of the Superior City are explored by a diving group called the Great Lakes Shipwreck Historical Society. Watch them remove a wedding band from a skeleton for display in their museum.
YouTube - Grave Robbers of the Great Lakes
Divers in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huQfUijRsHc&feature=related
YouTube - Grave Robbers of the Great Lakes
Divers in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huQfUijRsHc&feature=related
it was only a couple of telegraphs , for goodness sake, no graves involved , no nothing. I suspect the only reason Mr RR /CDNN made such a fuss is he wants to be Richie, but can't - cos he's a ****.
i really am non-plussed at the reaction, is it me or should i be ashamed at being' immoral ', blah blah?
i can give you a very long list of things i find immoral, they generally involve victims of heinous crime or violation of fashion sense, not some 1984 , minging telegraph.
complete and utter nonsense,
if you have to have a cause you want to fight for, try hunger, cheap AIDS drugs for Africa, support for Burma, don't bother me again, i'm bored.
jamie, 'scuba looter,' grave robber,' husband, dad, son, normal bloke, MV Trident ( and proud of it)
(and busy finding wrecks...............which you won't even hear about now, happy?)
i really am non-plussed at the reaction, is it me or should i be ashamed at being' immoral ', blah blah?
i can give you a very long list of things i find immoral, they generally involve victims of heinous crime or violation of fashion sense, not some 1984 , minging telegraph.
complete and utter nonsense,
if you have to have a cause you want to fight for, try hunger, cheap AIDS drugs for Africa, support for Burma, don't bother me again, i'm bored.
jamie, 'scuba looter,' grave robber,' husband, dad, son, normal bloke, MV Trident ( and proud of it)
(and busy finding wrecks...............which you won't even hear about now, happy?)
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