Researching for my next drysuit

[stuartv]

Thanks Stuart, I'm probably ML an though.

Tell me why the XCS2 is uncomfortable on deck in warm weather. Seems like a Fusion and XCS2 both with suitable undergarments for the same water temperature would feel equally warm out of water too. Is there something about the compressed neoprene that is warmer out of water?

I don't know about a Fusion, so no comment on that. My comparison is to my other suit - a Waterproof D9X which is a fairly light, breathable tri-lam (they call is a quad-lam).

During the summer around here, air temps in the 80s and 90s are normal. The quarry water is around 38 - 39F at the bottom, at the same time of year. Gearing up for 38 degree water, when it's 90 degrees out is always going to be a bit miserable. But, the XCS2 is heavy, doesn't breathe, and adds even more (unwanted) warmth, compared to my D9X. I wear the same undies under either suit. Maybe that means the D9X isn't quite as warm in the water and so this isn't a totally apples-to-apples comparison. But, I believe (it's just a gut feeling) that even if I added another thin base layer under the D9X, to make it apples to apples in terms of warmth in the water, the D9X would still be more comfortable on the surface because it's breathable.

If I'm geared up and it's in the 80s out, depending on what water temp I'm prepared for, I can still be very comfy standing around in the shade in my D9X, but a sweaty mess if I were wearing the XCS2. Cool to cold air temps and cold water? The XCS2 is great - if you aren't flying any time soon after. Warm air temps? Need to fly with the suit in the next couple of days? The light, breathable shell suit is way nicer.

Plus, the trilam is easy and comfy to take the top off, tuck the arms through the suspenders and continue to wear. I have the suspenders for the XCS2, but it's definitely not as comfy to doff just the top and continue to wear. That is partly because once you get out of the water, the suit is wet, making the top even heavier than it is anyway, so tucking the arms through the suspenders doesn't work as well because it's so heavy it wants to try and fall off constantly. Plus, the exterior of the XCS2 holds water more than the exterior of the shell suit does, so tucking the arms through the suspenders gets your undergarments way more wet than doing the same thing with the shell suit.

The XCS2 not having a telescopic torso means it's also much more of a contortionist act to get the top on and off. Especially if I'm wearing my cold water undies. The D9X torso telescopes, so taking it off just means lifting it straight up over/off my head. No contortions required.

I wore the D9X on a NC boat last Sept. I was diving steel doubles and wanted the redundant buoyancy. The surface conditions were awesome. It was a warm, sunny day. Between dives, I kept the suit on. I didn't even peel the top down right away. If I didn't go hang out in the direct sun, I was totally comfy. With the XCS2, I would have gotten completely out of the suit as soon as I got out of the water. And waited until the last minute to put it back on before the next dive.

 

[maj2]

Pro Everdry 4: Pretty snug, so little air migration and little drag. Almost as easy to dive as a wetsuit. Neoprene means that only light undergarments are needed (typically one or two layers of Merino wool) down to ~10C/50F water. Integrated socks + rockboots are nice and snug on your feet (compared to integrated boots or softboots), so not much issues with floaty feet.
Con Everdry 4: Backzip, so you can't zip up yourself. It also makes it more awkward to take a leak if you're male. Pretty snug, so difficult to don enough undergarments for real cold water diving (<10C/50F). Small-ish socks can easily lead to cold feet in cold water. Neoprene suit and neoprene seals make it rather difficult to mount dryglove rings.

Bottom line: A nice alternative for easy drysuit diving during the three warmest seasons. Not particularly suitable for winter diving. I prefer a drysuit with enough room for some serious undergarments and nice thick wool socks, a frontzip and two huge thigh pockets.

I have been using a Scubapro Everdry for a few years now.

I would disagree with the comment that it is not suitable for winter diving. I have used mine for several ice dives with two pairs of wool socks, a merino base layer and the Scubapro Climatec undergarment that came with the suit, and have been quite comfortable in near-freezing water. Now using Fourth Element Xerotherm base layer, which should be even warmer when combined with the Climatec. Haven't been ice diving in this configuration yet, since we have had no ice this winter...

It is a snug suit though otherwise, and definitely very little air migration. I can get into a vertical legs up/heads down position with very little significant air movement to my feet. Very easy to get back into a normal horizontal position.

I did have the neoprene wrist seals removed and replaced with a SiTech dry glove system by my LDS (which had already done a few similar installations). It can be done, but I would not have attempted it on my own. It was not a cheap upgrade, but I much prefer the dry gloves. If you are looking for dry gloves, consider the cost of this upgrade in your budget. Might be cheaper to chose one of your alternatives if dry gloves are a priority.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I'm certainly a big fan of breathable. I Dive a Fourth Element Argonaut. I can gear up in mine when the air temps are in the low 30's (90F?) and be okay. I could possible dive it year round, as there is a point where even a 3mm wetsuit is horrible to gear up in, but (for me) I want it in the water beneath the surface layer.

However I prefer to dive wet rather than dry so look forward to putting my DS into storage.

In my limited experience, I would suggest that a breathable trilam is more versatile and more comfortable than a neoprene. Of course it depends where you live and dive

 

[stuartv]

I should have mentioned earlier:

The D9 has socks. The D9X has boots. One of the other things I'm having done to my D9X right now is having the boots replaced with neoprene socks.

The suit is good for anything from very warm out to very cold out. If it's very warm out, I want to wear short, thin socks under the suit. If I'm prepping for really cold water, then I wear a pair of thick Merino wool socks and Fourth Element Arctic socks over those. The D9X boots were just about perfect in size for me to be able to do either one, but it was still the case that that meant the boots felt a little more loose than I liked when wearing just 1 pair of thin socks. I tried on the neoprene socks that are going to go on the suit and they feel good no matter what sock arrangement I wore underneath. I am looking forward to getting the suit back and just wearing regular wetsuit booties over the suit's neo socks. I may end up deciding I want 2 sizes of bootie and 2 sizes of fins, depending on how much sock I want to wear, but I'm okay with that. I have 2 different sizes of fins already, for wetsuit booties and my current drysuit boots, so I probably won't have to buy anything except maybe some bigger wetsuit booties. It will be worth it, to me, to always have socks, boots and fins that are sized just right for whatever I'm doing.

 

[Taath]

So I am still agonizing over what to do.

Was looking pretty hard at the USIA Techniflex custom suits. However, I've heard from a few dealers that the fit isn't so great on them, even when custom.

Looking at the Deep 6 Makara custom suit, looks like it has some great options.

Also still considering a D9 or D9X, both of which I found a pretty good deal on. The D9X may require a boot change for my relatively dainty feets.

Then I got to wondering if the mobility issues I am experiencing from my Fusion suit are a result of the neck ring. My suit has the old SiTech Neck Tite system with the hard plastic Frisbee ring. I can live with the donning and doffing. Wondering if replacing the neck tite to the newer more flexible quick neck or an old school latex seal would solve my flexibility issues.

My biggest issue is dealing with bungees and whatnot once the suit is on. The flexibility to reach across my chest is substantially restricted.

Any thoughts on neck rings? Would the old Neck tite make that much of a difference?

 

[tech3324]

Any thoughts on neck rings? Would the old Neck tite make that much of a difference?

It did for me. I had my Neck tite removed and replaced with a latex seal immediately after trying on the suit. The newer Quick Neck system is supposedly more flexible. I can't imagine a suit being more flexible than a Fusion Sport, so it might be the heavier skin or the neck ring that is making yours unsatisfactory.

 

[Trailboss123]

I am not familiar with the old Neck tite. I have the SiTech neck ring and it hasn't been an issue for me. I wouldn't give up the ability to swap out my own neck seal no matter what and I would not personally go back to latex seals after my experience with the super comfortable silicone seals from Waterproof.

 

[Taath]

Thanks all.

I am not familiar with the old Neck tite. I have the SiTech neck ring and it hasn't been an issue for me. I wouldn't give up the ability to swap out my own neck seal no matter what and I would not personally go back to latex seals after my experience with the super comfortable silicone seals from Waterproof.

Does yours look like this: Quick Neck - Modular Solutions - Products - SI-TECH ?

It did for me. I had my Neck tite removed and replaced with a latex seal immediately after trying on the suit. The newer Quick Neck system is supposedly more flexible. I can't imagine a suit being more flexible than a Fusion Sport, so it might be the heavier skin or the neck ring that is making yours unsatisfactory.

I am thinking this could be the issue for me as well. Torn (no pun intended) on whether to go back to a latex neck or give the more flexible quick neck system a shot.

 

[stuartv]

My biggest issue is dealing with bungees and whatnot once the suit is on. The flexibility to reach across my chest is substantially restricted.

Are you sure the problem isn't just that the sleeves are too short?

It took me a number of dives in my D9X to realize that the sleeves on it are too short for me. With warm water undies on, it's great for me. When I wore it with my full cold water undies on, I realized that I could barely reach the valves on my doubles. At first I just thought I needed to work on my gear configuration. I mean, on the surface, I extended both arms straight up over my head and that was fine. My Solo instructor observed my trouble with reaching my valves, we got out and he even said "stick your arms up" and I did, with no trouble. So I thought the suit was fine. Then I eventually thought to try sticking my arms straight out in front of me and that's when I realized they were restricting my motion. It was okay with no undies on. But, with thick undies on, the thickness prevented the bigger part of the wrist seal from pulling as far up my arm and that shortened my reach by a good 2 inches.

Once I realized that, I did some experimenting at home with different undies underneath and concluded that all my troubles really seem to be down to having sleeves that are too short. My D9X is now off at DRiS getting Kubi dry glove permanent rings glued in and, in the process they are making the sleeves 3" longer for me. They are making 3" neoprene sleeves that will glue to the end of the suit's sleeves and then the rings will be glued into those.

Maybe your problem with reaching across your chest is the same thing?

 

[stuartv]

Thanks all.



Does yours look like this: Quick Neck - Modular Solutions - Products - SI-TECH ?



I am thinking this could be the issue for me as well. Torn (no pun intended) on whether to go back to a latex neck or give the more flexible quick neck system a shot.

I haven't really looked at a Neck Tite, but I'm definitely fuzzy on how it would restrict you from reaching across your chest.

My D9X is also getting the Quick Neck system installed right now, too. When I get it back, I will be able to report on whether it is restricting my movements any compared to the original latex seal. But, I'm not really sure how it would