Rescuing unconscious diver question

[TSandM]

There are situations where a diver may be unresponsive but breathing -- this is what I have read about the severe narcosis cases in the days when people were doing very deep dives on air. What would worry me about removing someone's mask is that, should they REGAIN consciousness on the way up but be confused or disoriented (likely, particularly if the unresponsiveness was related to narcosis or seizure) they may well try to inhale through their nose. I don't have enough hands to pinch the nose, hold onto the diver, and manage air spaces during ascent. I suspect I'd leave the mask on unless it was completely flooded.

 

[Dive-aholic]

At first, I thought Pete's suggestion was a good one. My thought was why doesn't the mask removal get taught. After giving it some thought, and reading Lynne's post, I have to agree with Lynne. First, I'm not so sure expanding air would have enough force to push water into the nose. I have a regular mask (non purge) and can clear quite a bit of water out of the mask without touching it with my hand. And even if the water doesn't clear that way and does go into the nose, that amount of water in the lungs can be fixed much more easily than a whole breath of water in the lungs if the victim does regain consciousness, panic, and inhale through the nose. Even if the mask was completely flooded, the pressure of the mask on the face will limit the amount of water that can make it into the lungs. It will even limit the length of the inspiration when the negative pressure is met. Wet lungs can be fixed. Soaked lungs aren't that easy.

 

[The Chairman]

You consciously block water from going backwards into your nasal passages. Being unconscious, you can't do that. The easiest way for water to vent is through the nose.

 

[kidspot]

One other question ... other than asking thousands of questions here... where can information like this be found for personal study?

Aloha, Tim

 

[The Chairman]

You can try over at www.ScubaBoard.com for some great info. Let's face it, we are far, far more dynamic than any agency's rescue manual. You will find lot's of info here that is missing in the manuals.

 

[Cacia]

You can try over at www.ScubaBoard.com for some great info. Let's face it, we are far, far more dynamic than any agency's rescue manual. You will find lot's of info here that is missing in the manuals.

__________________

I agree 100% and plan to launch a thread someday "In defense of internet learning" !

Look at who responds to these questions? Sure, you get an appropriate range of opinions, but you won't find better information on a whole range of things, IMO.

I understand the reluctance some have when it comes to deco, etc. BUT, you get a full range of qualified (and a few not, most people can distinguish) divers answering and demonstarting the concepts, math, etc.

I have found more arguments FOR internet (SB) learning than against for the discerning diver.

back on topic, I thought the post advocating the desire for both divers to be close to nuetral was the best because it does not take much finning to bring someone up. In my rescue class we practiced this a lot. It was hard to hold the reg in place and vent though. I am not that convinced there would actually be a lot of venting going on.

I wonder if the international rescusitation medical committees that decide ACLS and EFR protocols bibliography would be interesting to you Tim. Lynne would know what kind of data/studies could be found there. In my experience it is mostly things like defibrillation timelines and outcomes..that sort of thing. Check the bibliographies in manuals.

 

[SparticleBrane]

If they are unconscious and you're bringing them up, there is air that will be coming out of their nose as they ascend from the air in their lungs expanding. Wouldn't this keep any water out that might be present in the mask? I can't say I've ever come across what NetDoc is describing.
In my experience (which is quite limited) I've only seen that as the air in the mask increases in volume the water is forced out--kinda the same principle as clearing your mask. Thoughts?

 

[ReefHound]

I understand the reluctance some have when it comes to deco, etc. BUT, you get a full range of qualified (and a few not, most people can distinguish) divers answering and demonstarting the concepts, math, etc.

Actually, there's nothing more effective than an unqualified faulty answer to bring out the experts with loads of great information.

 

[ReefHound]

In my experience (which is quite limited) I've only seen that as the air in the mask increases in volume the water is forced out--kinda the same principle as clearing your mask. Thoughts?

But that's exactly what NetDoc is saying! The water will be forced out of the mask cavity by expanding air. The question is where will it go? Is the path of least resistance through the mask skirt or up his nostrils?

 

[kidspot]

I must admit that I have learned more here on SB than in many of the classes I've taken... however ... sometimes I just don't know the questions that need to be asked... so I guess I'll just start some new threads dealing with different issues and see what comes up