Rescuing panicked people during accidents...

[Mako Mark]

On the other hand, the next time I have to rescue someone, I might try poppin' a cap in their ***- just because I saw it on the internet.

There is a report of a cave diving accident in Florida somewhere where two cave trained divers were followed, unbeknown to them by an OW diver into the cave.

The first the knew of him was when he grabbed one of them and signalled out of air. The cave divers calmly dealt with the situation and escorted him out of the cave, whereupon the proceeded to beat the living bejeezus out of him in the car park, resulting in two broken arms and a broken leg.

I am sure that if they were armed, that they would have popped a cap in is papoose.

This has to be one of the funniest diving accidents on record though I reckon.

 

[do it easy]

There is a report of a cave diving accident in Florida somewhere where two cave trained divers were followed, unbeknown to them by an OW diver into the cave.

Technically, I don't think it's a cave diving accident, since the injuries didn't occur in the cave. Let's call it a beat down in the parking lot accident.

 

[Mako Mark]

The injuries were as a direct result of cave diving, therefore I beg to dissagree

As for it being an accident, I can see your point..

 

[Courtneyf82]

My personal opinion is that if you let panic take hold, you deserve to get socked up a little bit, I've never had the need to strike a victim, I find a head-and-arm choke works best, it restricts their movement and makes for an easy transition to their back.

 

[Walter]

That being said, we can all make errors in judgement and my instructor did say that as a last resort if you have put yourself in a position where the panicked diver has a grasp on you and you cannot release yourself by pushing off or dropping under then you may have to push or even punch the panicked diver to get free. The bottom line is you do not want to become a victim as well.

Deflate your BC, grab the panicked diver and climb down their body. They will release you. No need to punch.

 

[derwoodwithasherwood]

I feel the need to defend myself. How terrible I have to defend against personal attacks on a message board meant for discussion and debate. Personal attacks and bashing is different and deterorates the integrity of this board, while disagreement and debate is healthy and what forums are about. But here it goes...

My apologies if my comments in the other thread sounded like some sort of personal attack. They were not intended as such.

However, in the spirit of discussion and debate and education, let us be clear: several well qualified full time professional firefighters told you there is no recognized fire department training standard that advocates either knocking out or punching a panicing victim, despite what you may have been told. It is certainly true that one should avoid becoming a second victim but there are many violence-free options to ensure that. If your volunteer department has somehow misconstrued "protecting yourself" into striking a victim then your department needs to seriously reconsider it's stance. Protecting yourself starts long before getting within arms reach of the victim.

As a full-time professional firefighter in a very busy city, I have had ample experience over the last 20 years. I have never encountered a situation where it would be warranted. I work daily with 3,000 others and have never heard any of them needing to knock out a victim either. There are always other, less violent, options.

As Walter and others have pointed out repeatedly, in this specific example all you need to do is drop down and the panicing victim will lose all interest in you. Please accept their suggestion in the spirit it was offered and learn from it. You will be a better rescuer in the future. Pass it on to your department and let them learn from it -- they will be a better department in the future.

 

[freediver]

RadRob, I too would like to apologize for anything I posted that may have made you uncomfortable in any way.
You must admit, however, this is a pretty neat Board that harbors so many different perspectives and allows each of those perspectives to be defended in a steadfast manner. I regret you feeling that you are being attacked personally but would submit that it is your perspective that is being challenged. It is often difficult to denote one or the other on such an emotionally charged board.
With reference to the rescue event of a panicked diver/drowning person, it has become my perspective that an approach from behind limits any unsafe engagement with the person. In the rare event that a rescuer has been grabbed, it is imperative for the rescuer to take what breath is possible and submerge. The victim will not like having their airway compromised and will position their efforts in regaining it by going/remaining at the surface.
The problem with a rescue lies in the fact that a rescuer may inadvertently place themselves in a position where they can be grabbed AND when it occurs, the rescuer often makes the mistake of trying to stay above water instead of submerging immediately. To me, these are compelling arguments for a strong foundation in freediving skills (lifeguarding knowledge helps also) as has been pointed out by several on this board. But again, only my perspective!

 

[RadRob]

People disagreeing with my tactics is one thing. I don't mind what any of you said. I am a big boy, I can take it. Do we all agree? No, and I respect that. Am I going any further with this so we can keep beating a dead horse after this last post? no.

One person in particular took a direct personal attack and we have since talked via pm. I have no other complaints about what anyone else said so no apologies needed (thank you though). You guys have your views, and I have mine. For all any of you know of me, I am a bullet proof guy who is rich and has dove around the world with jacques cousteau, I date a supermodel, etc. or so I profess here. I could be one of the guys that just get on here to stir the pot (I'm not, by the way). So I understand many of you calling bs on what you don't agree with. Some agree with me, some don't. Whatever. I also call BS on some of the things I read here, but we won't go there. No matter what we all think, this board is no place for me or anyone else to call someone an idiot, moron, dumb @&!, or any other name. Like I said, I am a big boy and can take it, but I like this board and don't want the precedent set that it is okay to do so.

With that said... I apologize for causing a sh-storm and look forward to discussing other issues with all of you. Please, let's move on.

I don't go around punching people, but if I screw up and get in a position where it warrants physical action, I will use it.

 

[RadRob]

There is a report of a cave diving accident in Florida somewhere where two cave trained divers were followed, unbeknown to them by an OW diver into the cave.

The first the knew of him was when he grabbed one of them and signalled out of air. The cave divers calmly dealt with the situation and escorted him out of the cave, whereupon the proceeded to beat the living bejeezus out of him in the car park, resulting in two broken arms and a broken leg.

I am sure that if they were armed, that they would have popped a cap in is papoose.

This has to be one of the funniest diving accidents on record though I reckon.

for the record, this wasn't me...

 

[Tigerman]

I guess they felt that they needed to teach the tailgater a little lesson by showing him how accidents happen.. You screw up and Darwin (or cave divers) smack you down! :rofl: