Rescue vs Self-Reliant

[Mike]

Mike:

That assumes he won't just go on about his dive solo and be happy with that. Some people would, if only to avoid feeding into something perceived as a manipulative effort at control.

Part two - if he continues on his dive solo and doesn't return to the dive boat, stop diving with him altogether.

I suspect the OP is all bark no bite and that is why the husband keeps doing what he is doing, he's adapted to tuning out the mouth of his spouse. He prescribes to the 'better to ask for forgiveness than ask permission' mentality and has been getting away with it forever.

Actions speak louder than words, time to train the puppy.

 

[lowviz]

... I've been married 25+ years. There are a lot of times you gotta realize that you can't control the other person's behavior, ...

No comment.

The nice thing about "Solo" is that you get to trust your buddies without relying on them.

OMG and holding...

... I need to plan for myself, take actions accordingly and be the best dive buddy that I can be.

I love diving and I'm not giving it up because of his lack of awareness.

I got my OW from Tim O'Leary many years ago. I was diving with a 'compromised' buddy, my son. Tim stuck his finger in my face and said that it is my job to always be the better diver. I never forgot that.

You have been diving "paired solo" for long enough to 'girl up', get it right, and continue. Who knows, hubs may need you someday...

-stay safe.

 

[Storker]

what's the root of the irritation and frustration? Is it a demand for rigid adherence to rules/agreements, a need to the dive to follow a rigid plan, fear of a gear malfunction leaving one out of gas with no buddy backup functionally at hand, and so forth.

I think we all agree, whether one is a solo diver or not, that solo diving requires you to carry all your redundancy needs yourself, and that in some situations and/or conditions, solo diving may not be as safe as proper buddy diving, yes?

I think we also agree that a well planned and executed solo dive with proper gear and within proper limits is less risky than a poorly executed buddy dive, but that solo diving isn't for everyone, yes?

If we agree on those two points, I hope we also can agree that a buddy who isn't following proper buddy procedures is violating the principle of proper redundancy for vital gear and correct handling of the shallow part of the incident pit, yes?

The consequence of this simple logic is that a buddy who isn't following the agreed dive plan may very well impose a risk that the other person isn't willing or prepared to take, yes?

That kind of behavior is, to me, irresponsible and egotistical, and personally I prefer to avoid that kind of behavior in the people I dive with. I don't think I'm the only one with that opinion.


BTW, I don't think this kind of reasoning stems from some need for "rigid adherance to rules", which also is a somewhat loaded term for me

Sounds like fear is a loaded term for you, or you prefer to use it more conservatively than I am in this instance. Would 'concern' work better for you?

Probably, yes. "Fear", to me, is a rather uncomfortable state of mind which often leads to irrational and dangerous actions. A rational risk analysis followed by behavior in concordance with the risk analysis and personal risk acceptance has, to me, very little to do with the actual feeling of fear.

I may have misunderstood you, but the wording in the post I replied to seemed more than a little condescending to me. Thus my somewhat aggressive response, particularly since I have an impression that some posters here have little understanding for a rational, personal decision to not dive solo.

 

[lowviz]

... I have an impression that some posters here have little understanding for a rational, personal decision to not dive solo.

Interesting observation.

I favor adding solo skills to help shore up a compromised buddy system. In doing so, I also realize that doing such goes against both proper buddy and solo diving procedures.

Sometimes a compromise is all you can hope for if you insist on continuing to dive with someone on another wavelength.

 

[drbill]

Do a true solo cert (I don't recommend the PADI self-reliant diver one but only because there are some dive ops that won't accept it). With a husband who has no buddy skills, you may never get to use the rescue cert if he has disappeared!

 

[drrich2]

Storker, thanks for the clarifications. A few then from me now...

1.) I sometimes represent a point of view with a bit of an edge, to contrast differing view points even when I'm not picking a side. No condescension intended. I'm neither trying to label her too uptight or her husband a reckless danger.

2.) When I use fear, I am not insinuating an excessive, neurotic or phobic over-reaction. Many fears are legitimate.

3.) Ditto 'rigid' adherence. In some areas of diving, such as cave, other demanding technical dives and rebreather use, I believe rigid adherence to protocols (e.g.: pre-dive check lists on a rebreather) are stronger advised for people who wish to survive the dive! On regular recreational dives, I find views vary widely. Some people still esteem and advocate for strong buddy technique, others less so, and I've even seen someone post about doing solo dives without a redundant air source if the dive isn't greater than some chosen depth.

3.) Yes, some people chose not to engage in solo diving, including some people whose diving competence is easily sufficient to engage in it if so desired. And in some situations and with some divers, buddy diving is reasonably expected to be 'safer,' though even then, some may decide that solo is 'safe enough' - that call is personal and will vary.

4.) Yes, if the husband agrees to her terms and violates that, leaving her solo diving without training or redundancy for it, that is a problem. I wonder, if he were reading this thread and posting, what he would say. He could say that if she wants to stay close together, she's welcome to keep up and stick close to him! I doubt she'd like that attitude, but it might make sense to him when seen from his perspective.

Scuba diving is a voluntary recreational activity for most of the non-professional forum membership, so everybody has to decide for him/herself what standards need to be in place (e.g.: training, gear, buddy practices, environmental conditions, boat support, etc...) to make a prospective dive acceptable to do, and beyond that, to enjoy it.

My posts to the OP were designed to clarify what her conditions and their basis were, and help outline some choices to resolve the problem (whatever that actually turned out to be) that was making her sick, upset and ruining much of her experience.

Only she can decide what to do about that. Solo course? Only dive with another buddy? Bring another buddy and dive with him but ignore him if he runs off? Or, paraphrasing some other input, coax him into further training in hopes he'll reconsider and adopt consistently solid buddy diving practices?

Original Poster: A special request. If you would, please, in about 1 year, post back to this thread and let us know what happened, once there's time to see how things worked out with whatever you decide to do.

Richard.

 

[tursiops]

Original Poster: A special request. If you would, please, in about 1 year, post back to this thread and let us know what happened, once there's time to see how things worked out with whatever you decide to do.

I'm thinking maybe your curiosity exceeds your right to know.

 

[drrich2]

Not a right, just a request.

 

[EFX]

If you were diving solo, would you do a rescue or self-reliant class first?

Take self-reliant first.

.... To be honest, I HATE diving with him as he has no buddy skills what-so-ever..... I'm tired of playing catch-me-if-you-can.

How 'bout attaching a tether between you and him. He'll end up slowing down and you can relax and go for the ride.

Seriously, ask him to practice OOA sharing both ways. To do this he has to be close. Tell him you want to do it sometime in the middle of the dive. He might hang with you until that time not knowing when you will give him the signal. Another idea is to ask him if he'll tell you (back on the boat) what critters you are looking at. He may hang with you because of that.

Give him a reason to stay close other than the usual it's for safety, blah, blah, blah.

 

[markmud]

If you were diving solo, would you do a rescue or self-reliant class first?

My husband & I just relocated to South Florida. To be honest, I HATE diving with him as he has no buddy skills what-so-ever. On our last night dive, I was trying to follow his light but lost him quite a few times. I'm tired of playing catch-me-if-you-can. I've discussed this with him to the point of nausea over the past 4 years. I'm extremely frustrated, especially now that we are living in a dive destination as I can only imagine it's going to get worse.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to which class would be the best to take in my situation? My goal is to have rescue, DM & Self-Reliant diver completed in the next 9 months. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Please no husband bashing as I am already there and am literally sick to my stomach.

Thanks!

Hello SMAE,

I can relate to your dilemma. My wife is an SOB buddy.

I received the PADI Self-Reliant Cert last year. It has been recognized by every dive operator that I have dived with to date. I believe the SDI Solo cert is recognized by more people as being the "true solo cert."

Be aware: Many divers advocate using tech diving protocols for gear sizing and configuration. I am strictly a recreational diver. I have found that with a .5 SAC rate, a conservative diving strategy, and "head-on-swivel" situational awareness, I don't need 30cf of redundant gas. If your diving style is similar to mine, consider a 13cf pony or maybe a 19cf on the upper end. If you do deep dives where you are restricted by an overhead or staged decompression, then you should strictly follow tech protocols, including the training. When I am buddy diving (with good buddies) I use a 6cf pony rig. I don't feel comfortable without a pony anymore. If my primary fails, I have 6cf to get to my buddy (who should only be a few feet away) or a direct ascent.

Practice pony bottle ascents and always manipulate your BCD manually while doing these pony bottle ascents.

Caveat Emptor: Divemasters and boat crews will, in many cases, assume that you are an inexperienced air-hog when you whip-out your pony rig. Flash your solo cert card and crew members will start to aspirate again.

I believe you are making a good choice to get a solo cert. If your experience is like mine, your diving will become much more enjoyable because you will have so many more options.

Good Luck,

markm

---------- Post added August 24th, 2014 at 10:22 AM ----------

I took the SDI Solo course and conducted the PADI Self-Reliant course. My opinions:

From a standards standpoint alone, Self-Reliant is a bit better. See my post here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ad...di-lacking-solo-diver-course.html#post5912881
However, as flots am pointed out, there can be an advantage to having the word “Solo” on the card.

Overall they are very similar.

so, I strongly recommend you find the best possible instructor to conduct either course.

best wishes,

k

Hey Knotical,

Your recommendation is exactly what I did. I wanted the SDI course, but Rick from Dolphin in Sacramento had s slot available for the PADI course. I jumped on it. I can still get the SDI cert from Rick, but there are documentation issues that he needs to overcome as he does not teach SDI courses often (or did not back then).

markm