Rescue skills not in OW Course

[TMHeimer]

A thread occurred in Q & A forum above that has often been discussed-- "old school training".
I thought I'd post here about one aspect & a pet peeve of mine as many must know by now--
The lack of rescue skills taught in today's OW course (as opposed to decades ago when I have HEARD they were taught). I do know that there is the odd instructor (and perhaps agency) that still includes these skills.
My information here is from the PADI OW manual I used when taking the course in 2005. I have no access to current manuals/e learning, so feel free to correct anything I quote (paraphrase). I onlly assume that because the number of pool hours for OW has remained stable since '05 that the attention paid to rescue skills has remained about the same. That is, the actual pool work includes the tired diver tows, cramp removal and of course the OOA sharing skill.

This is from the section titled "Near Drowning and the Unresponsive Diver" (p. 161)
My comments are in ( ). I am paraphrasing.

--check for breathing (there is a specific way, but you could probably figure out a way) and begin rescue breaths (Are you trained in that? Did you take first aid/CPR? Do you know to blow a lot less with infants? I know there are no infants on scuba).
--quickly bring diver to surface (Are you trained? if not trained to do it correctly embolism could occur).
--establish ample positive buoyancy for you & victim (Are you trained properly so as to keep yourself safe doing this? PANIC not included).
--get assistance as needed in providing rescue breathing (you and fellow beginner are certified to dive to 60' in conditions....etc. That means it can be the two of you in the boonies with no one else around, and that's OK).
--continue rescue breathing and/or CPR (OW students are NOT required to know and be certified in CPR).
--check pulse (OK, most people can probably do that).
--administer emergency oxygen if possible (Glad "if possible" is added since it is not required to have O2 present, which wouldn't matter anyway since OW students are not required to be trained in providing oxygen. As well, this is shown during Rescue & DM course for maybe half an hour).

OK that's it.

Someone in the other thread suggested that the more elaborate /longer OW course of decades ago that cost. $125 would cost over$1,200 today, which seems about right.
Others in the past have made two comments--
1) Adding all the major rescue skills to today's OW course would give the students too much to swallow at once. I agree, as I think we're pushing it already just to get everything that's currently required into 8-10 pool hours over a mere 2 days.
2) The other one is that divers are safe enough if they have mastered (other old topic--what is "mastered"?) the current OW skills--without knowing the major Rescue course skills. I only agree with that if everything goes well on the dive, and especially of no one panics.

Now I haven't been in OW classroom since my own course I took in '05, but I don't recall from then any reference to the skills listed on p 161 of the old manual. Nor do I recall any of the many instructors I assisted for 4 years saying anything about this stuff to the students at the pool.

I thought about doing a Poll, but think it's better just to get input on how others feel about this...Ie.--Should rescue skills be in OW course (and the course thus cost more)?
I'd like to limit discussion to the Rescue skills aspect only, as opposed to any of the other "old school" stuff that used to be included that I can't relate to, such as physical torture having little to do with diving...

I figured Basic is the best place for this as it could affect anyone who is not Rescue Certified or otherwise has rescue training. I only started thinking about this stuff after taking Rescue and realizing my newbie buddy & I did quite a number of dives with neither of us knowing these skills, and without other divers (experienced or not) around. Perhaps the agencies assume you are around others who have rescue skills such as on a charter boat or popular shore site? Perhaps even just a section in the OW manual that explains the major rescue skills that students could at least read--better than nothing. May need a disclaimer saying PADI's not responsible if you use these skills without taking the Rescue Course.
Thanks for your input.

 

[swimlikethefish]

IMO, biggest skill taught in rescue that isn't covered in OW: self-reliance.

 

[rhwestfall]

Every NAUI class I have taken includes a component and/or review of rescue skills in the water portion.

YMMV

 

[TMHeimer]

Every NAUI class I have taken includes a component and/or review of rescue skills in the water portion.

YMMV

Can you be more specific? Which skills? a "component". Admit I'm not that familiar with NAUI. I do know there is a NAUI Rescue Diver Course. And that CPR is required for that as it is with PADI. So what skills are in the NAUI Rescue course that weren't covered in OW course? Ie, if they'r ecovered in OW why is there a Rescue course? I assume NAUI OW doesn't have CPR as a pre-requisite, same as PADI?
Also curious--what other NAUI courses have you taken where there was a rescue component (would you get some rescue review if you too wreck or deep diver?)?

 

[TMHeimer]

IMO, biggest skill taught in rescue that isn't covered in OW: self-reliance.

I agree, since buddy diving is always referred to with PADI. Other than taking the PADI Self Reliant or other Solo course, what would you suggest should be added to PADI OW regarding the self reliant aspect of rescue?
I do think some self reliant skills should be at least mentioned in OW, as I don't thing the SR course is available here (not sure. It may not be available everywhere anyway). So, you've got to decide what gets added to OW, how it affects the hours allotted, and how much it increases the cost of the OW course. As well, how does that change affect PADI wanting to sell the Self Reliant course?

 

[rhwestfall]

Every time we got in the water (AOW and above), things like assisting establishing buoyancy with others, and tows were reviewed. In Rescue, obviously the scope was expanded. Then is MSD, there were ongoing "refreshers" in the techniques imparted through the previous classes. NAUI MSD is the equivalent to their DM without requiring "demonstration level" of skills, "lecture training", and the "store component".

Maybe it is how they teach classes here... IDK.

 

[TMHeimer]

Every time we got in the water (AOW and above), things like assisting establishing buoyancy with others, and tows were reviewed. In Rescue, obviously the scope was expanded. Then is MSD, there were ongoing "refreshers" in the techniques imparted through the previous classes. NAUI MSD is the equivalent to their DM without requiring "demonstration level" of skills, "lecture training", and the "store component".

Maybe it is how they teach classes here... IDK.

Thanks. I just wasn't sure what other courses you meant. I assumed Rescue is reviewed in NAUI MSD (I know of the difference between the 2 MSDs as it's been hashed out forever). What skills were included in Rescue that weren't in OW?-- as you mentioned the scope was expanded. Regarding the tows that PADI OW teaches, I would think one probably could figure out how to effectively tow someone a short distance without being taught in the course. In fact, none of the rescue skills are really rocket science, just imortant stuff to know.
Anyway, in your OW & AOW courses were you taught the proper ways to deal with a panicked diver or how to bring up an unconcious one from depth, or how to remove equipment while towing and giving rescue breaths? The sort of stuff that isn't touched upon with PADI? How about O2--does NAUI OW teach how to assemble the unit and administer O2?
CPR required of NAUI OW students?

I'm not trying to pick at NAUI, just want to know if they really do much more than PADI with rescue skills in the OW course.

 

[lowflyer]

If properly done the Rescue course has a lot of material to digest and practice scenarios to pass. It's not going to fit into an Open Water course and be well assimilated by students.

There is one thing in the Rescue course that should be included in OW. That is how to approach a panicked diver or avoid him for self preservation.

If we are going to rationalize adding a rescue course to OW, shouldn't we consider adding the contents of some of the specialties so students learn about the dangers of caves and wrecks, etc.?

There are a lot of poorly trained OW divers passing the certification. We should concentrate on making sure they are better trained in the basics rather than overloading them with more material they won't absorb anyway.
I

 

[rhwestfall]

Cutting and pasting, so this is jumbled...

There was an O2 provider course taught here separately. That and CPR were required to do Rescue.

No on CPR for AOW.

AOW: ways to deal with a panicked diver, how to remove equipment while towing

Rescue: how to bring up an unconcious one from depth, giving rescue breaths (but no longer taught),

As to additional skills in Rescue: techniques for getting bodies out of the water, carries, assessment of injured diver

 

[TMHeimer]

If properly done the Rescue course has a lot of material to digest and practice scenarios to pass. It's not going to fit into an Open Water course and be well assimilated by students.

There is one thing in the Rescue course that should be included in OW. That is how to approach a panicked diver or avoid him for self preservation.

If we are going to rationalize adding a rescue course to OW, shouldn't we consider adding the contents of some of the specialties so students learn about the dangers of caves and wrecks, etc.?

There are a lot of poorly trained OW divers passing the certification. We should concentrate on making sure they are better trained in the basics rather than overloading them with more material they won't absorb anyway.
I

I agree the Rescue manual has about as much info to digest as the OW manual. Agree that probably the most important rescue skill is dealing with panic and absolutely should be in the OW course.
Also agree that all this stuff would not "fit" into the current PADI (& others) OW course. Would you agree that a much expanded time-wise OW course would be the way to go to get this stuff in properly (and increased fee as a result)?
I think a majority would agree that even without rescue skills there is not enough time to have every OW student "master" the 24 PADI pool skills with the time allotted today--that is, as one poster put it, you should do each skill 10 times to have mastered it.
Only thing I may disagree with is about the specialties. You need specific training to enter a cave or a wreck. You can as an OW diver just swim around the wreck & outside the cave. Knowledge of penetration should not be in OW. If an OW diver does this they are just stupid.