Rescue Scenario Dive - 3rd Air Source?

[AzAtty]

A third alternate gas source is not the solution. Proper training is. As others have said, the ability to retrieve a backup is critical and every diver should be comfortable with it.

I'll go a bit further on this one. You're thinking about solutions to the problem, and that's good. I'm of the opinion that you should think of ways to avoid the problem to begin with. In this case there was a painfully simple way to prevent the problem, and you already know it: assess the situation.

I teach my students that part of assessing the scene in any underwater emergency involving a conscious diver is, at the very least, checking gas supply of the victim and the victim's buddy (if still on site). It takes a few seconds and gives you valuable information concerning how to proceed. The last thing you need is a second emergency to compound the first.

If you had checked the victim's and the buddy's gauges in your scenario, you would have known that Diver 2 needed to get to the surface right away. If Diver 2 refused to leave, then you would know to have your buddy nearby to deal with an out-of-gas emergency. Simple steps, but very useful.

 

[simmonsjr]

Agreed, RD2 should be able to retrieve hi own octo. I think part of the problem is that a "standard" reg hose is not very long...guessing maybe 30-36 inches. So when D2 grabbed the reg, he would still be in a sort of panic state and because there was not a lot of space between the two divers, it made retrieving the octo more difficult...just speculating here.

So if I am understanding correctly, are you suggesting that if RD2's primary had a longer hose, this would have given the divers more space where RD2 would be better able to retrieve his octo. How long of a hose do you suggest?

I was actually D1 in this scenario and it was not until the ride home that I heard about this.

My setup is pretty basic I think. I do use a necklace but on my primary and have my octo attached in the "triangle". So what you guys are saying is that I should be breathing off whatever reg has the longer hose (currently my octo) and then necklace the other reg and let it dangle below my chin in case of emergency. Am I understanding this correctly?

The setup looks like this:

Your primary reg is on a long hose (5' is recommended for open water dives, 7' is recommended for penetration dives). It is routed underneath your right arm, up across your chest to the left side of your neck, then behind your neck from left to right, and into your mouth. If you need to donate it you simply reverse the routing. However, in the very likely scenario of the OOA diver ripping it out of your mouth all you have to do is duck your head and the hose will go over the top of your head.

Your alternate is on a 22" black hose (since you are not donating this reg you do not want to draw attention to it with a high visibility hose). This length is just long enough for you to comfortably turn your head from side to side with the reg in your mouth. You attach this reg to a necklace around your neck (you can either buy this or make it yourself out of bungee cord or surgical tubing) which should hold it at a distance where all you have to do is tuck your chin in order to recover it hands free. The necklace keeps you from losing your backup as well as preventing it from being damaged due to dragging.

The reasoning behind this set-up is that your buddy knows that the reg that he is getting works since you were just breathing it, and he is therefore less likely to panic. Additionally, you always know exactly where your back-up is. And, as long as you spend a few minutes breathing it at the beginning of the dive, you know it works as well.

Hope that helps.

Jason

 

[Diver0001]

Well... I haven't read the other responses yet but I'll say this:

As this scenario plays out you end up with two separate rescues going. RD1 and diver1 and RD2 with diver2. Both RD1 and RD2 have rescues to perform but now they're doing them solo. This is not only *exceedingly* uncommon in the real world, but I doubt that most rescue diver students have the experience and the wherewithal to adjust to something like that happening on the fly. Personally, I don't think it's a good scenario.

RD2 (getting back to the details) has a difficult task. He can either locate his octopus or teach diver2 to buddy breathe on the spot.

Things like this are the reason that I really dislike configurations where the octopus can be accidentally dislodged. If we're going to throw all of our hope at using the octopus instead of teaching buddy breathing to all new divers then the octopus *absolutely* *positively* *always* must be exactly where you think it's going to be.

R..

 

[pafindr]

One thing RD#2 could have done once he saw RD#1 was taking care of D#1 was to check on D#2's air supply. Once he did this he could have given D#2 his octo before he ran out of air.

 

[Thalassamania]

Things like this are the reason that I really dislike configurations where the octopus can be accidentally dislodged. If we're going to throw all of our hope at using the octopus instead of teaching buddy breathing to all new divers then the octopus *absolutely* *positively* *always* must be exactly where you think it's going to be.

R..

I couldn't agree more. We do a drill where put our hand on our auxiliary, pull it from its pocket/holder/clip/whatever, drop it, reach back to the first stage, and recover the auxiliary by sliding along the hose.

 

[Diver0001]

I couldn't agree more. We do a drill where put our hand on our auxiliary, pull it from its pocket/holder/clip/whatever, drop it, reach back to the first stage, and recover the auxiliary by sliding along the hose.

yeah. It's not in the PADI standards to do that but I do teach the follow the hose technique to find the primary (I teach the other way too). I guess it wouldn't hurt to tell students that this works for the octopus if you can't find it as well...

R..

 

[Thalassamania]

yeah. It's not in the PADI standards to do that but I do teach the follow the hose technique to find the primary (I teach the other way too). I guess it wouldn't hurt to tell students that this works for the octopus if you can't find it as well...

R..

That's something I can not understand. Follow the hose has to work (if it doesn't you've much larger troubles than you thought) yet I've watched lots of divers (in real and other classes) do arm sweep after arm sweep, with each one getting faster and more spasmodic, until having reached critical mass they bolt for the surface. One of my instructors even started using an arm sweep as the hand signal for, "look out boss ... he's-a-gonna go!"

 

[Diver0001]

LOL

Yeah well there are two techniques so I teach them both. I guess you have to practice teaching the arm-sweep some more ....

R..

 

[Thalassamania]

I understand that standards force your hand, but what sense does it make to teach an emergency procedure that will very likely fail?

 

[Diver0001]

What makes it an emergeny procedure? It's only an emergency if you can't find it and your octopus is gone, as well as your buddy and all other nearby divers.... I wonder how often it happens that someone drops their primary when there are no other divers around?

The only time it ever happened to me it was kicked out of my mouth. We were at 42 metres at the time. I crept up to another diver without really noticing it (narced I guess) and suddendly *kablam* and my regulaor and mask were both gone... LOL I was quick enough to grab the mask before it floated away and used my own octopus, which I could find by touch, until I had the mask back on. It never occured to me to sweep anything *or* fumble around for the hoses.... When the sht hit the fan I used my octopus.

And since everyone has an octopus and they all know exactly where it is (cough), I show them that if their primary is gone they can use their own octopus..... in addition to the sweeping and fumbling techniques.

Yeah, but getting back to your question, standards are standards and some things in life are very Dilbert-like. We just have to accept them.

R..