Rescue Scenario Dive - 3rd Air Source?

[Thalassamania]

When a diver has handed off his primary and failed to find his secondary were it belongs ... the procedures that he follows then might reasonably called an "emergency procedure."

 

[simmonsjr]

I cannot remember what they are called, but one of the AAS's that is an octo and BC power inflator. (By the way, what are they called...lol).

They go by a couple of names: octo inflator, breathable inflator, alternate inflator, miracle streamlining device (MSD), or pain in the :mooner: (PITA). Alright, I made the last two up, but they are the two positions that are generally taken on them. Most people either love them or hate them.

You could make this a third option, but it is generally either this or a regular octo. However, I agree with the others that the "I can't find my AAS" scenario should be a non-issue if you train for it on a regular basis.

Take a couple of minutes on the front end of every dive and practice a few worst-case scenarios, and you will eventually properly react to the situation out of instinct.

New gear is never an adequate solution to a potential problem if you do not take the time to train for that eventuality. Besides, doing drills like this is a heck of a lot cheaper than going out and buying extra gear that you don't really need.

 

[piikki]

I hated "the sweep for your primary" skill in basic training. It was about the only skill I ever had to do twice before getting the nod. I also hated the fact that if you had to swipe more than twice, the instructor started panicking, and would re-place the reg for easier reaching - and thus make it all fake. If the darn thing is stuck behind my back, let me realize this can happen and figure out what I need to do! Even the feeblest kid in the class was groping for his octo rather than bolting, and I wanted to practice the hose tracing but we weren't given the chance.

What's the reason the sweep is so much preferred to the tracing? Do people struggle (physically) with that? The sweep produces easy results in most cases I guess but tracing would be 100% sure.

 

[piikki]

What makes it an emergeny procedure?

You have no gas source in your mouth, the only known one is in the mouth of panicked diver that might fight to give it to you. And others around you aren't actively aware of your situation... I think you should enter emergency state to gain gas right then and there. True - in this case you know you began the dive with functioning octo, and you should just find the hose and stick the thing in your mouth but if you are starving for a breath it's emergency enough for me.

 

[Diver0001]

What's the reason the sweep is so much preferred to the tracing? Do people struggle (physically) with that? The sweep produces easy results in most cases I guess but tracing would be 100% sure.

It isn't. Nowhere in the standards does it say you should emphsise one over the other but you must teach both.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

You have no gas source in your mouth, the only known one is in the mouth of panicked diver that might fight to give it to you. <etc>

When a diver has handed off his primary and failed to find his secondary were it belongs ... the procedures that he follows then might reasonably called an "emergency procedure."

Well of course I didn't ask this question arbitrarily.

It sounds like the two of you are still talking about this particular scenario. I was suggesting a broader principle.

It obviously a lot of things can *become* an emergency but I don't like the notion of thinking of every thing that happens as an emergency. It's an emergency if you're about to drown. It's a *problem* that needs immediate solving otherwise.

Teaching people that whatever happens is an emergency and thinking that everyone will panic at the first sign of trouble is the wrong approach, if you ask me. In fact, I think some instructors may put so much emphasis on this that it makes the students more nervous and less likely to be able to solve problems.

In this partcular case, if that's what we're talking about, sure RD2 has a big problem, you might even call it an emergency. But he still has options.

R..

 

[gcbryan]

Finding your alternate shouldn't be an emergency. At some point if you can't find it things change I suppose. I had a flying instructor tell me that the engine quiting wasn't an emergency (and this was in a helicopter no less) because we practiced for this. Being on fire now that was more in the emergency category.

I do think it would be a good thing if all standards were to incorporate the bungeed alternate on a short hose. Even if you just left the primary on an octo length hose (arms length). It's a simple change and to me is much preferable to the octo/triangle approach for so many reasons.

It can be incorporated into any gear setup with just switching the octo hose to the primary hose and replacing the octo hose with a shorter one.

 

[piikki]

Teaching people that whatever happens is an emergency and thinking that everyone will panic at the first sign of trouble is the wrong approach, if you ask me. In fact, I think some instructors may put so much emphasis on this that it makes the students more nervous and less likely to be able to solve problems.

I thoroughly agree with you on this.

Like I described above, I was very annoyed about my OW instructor who was so over the top assisting students the second they did not solve a problem on first attempt. We had 10 students+instructor basically in touch contact all the time. There was no reason for anyone to be worried about drowning, so one of his main points should have been to train new divers not to hassle but stay calm, persist and/or look for alternate solutions if something did not produce results. This would have been way more important than give a fake result with the one and only skill he wanted to tick of that time.
And snorting a little water isn't so dangerous in pool either IMHO. Might be a healthy test...

 

[SteveAD]

It obviously a lot of things can *become* an emergency but I don't like the notion of thinking of every thing that happens as an emergency. It's an emergency if you're about to drown. It's a *problem* that needs immediate solving otherwise.

Teaching people that whatever happens is an emergency and thinking that everyone will panic at the first sign of trouble is the wrong approach, if you ask me. In fact, I think some instructors may put so much emphasis on this that it makes the students more nervous and less likely to be able to solve problems.

In this partcular case, if that's what we're talking about, sure RD2 has a big problem, you might even call it an emergency. But he still has options.

R..

Finding your alternate shouldn't be an emergency. At some point if you can't find it things change I suppose. I had a flying instructor tell me that the engine quiting wasn't an emergency (and this was in a helicopter no less) because we practiced for this. Being on fire now that was more in the emergency category.


.

I'm surprised by this, every aviator I've ever met (I was an aircrewmember in the army) was pretty quick to declare an emergency. The thought process being that there are only standard procedures or emergency procedures, anything not normal is an emergency. Emergencies, however, don't necessarily have to be difficult or scarey

 

[scuba_frog]

Thanks for everyone's input on this. You guys have a lot more experience an insight than I do.

Jason...I understand you setup completely and makes sense. I'm actually heading out to get tanks filled, so I will be looking into different hose lengths while I'm at the LDS.

But I have one more question, if a 5' primary hose is recommended for OW and a 22" for your alternate, why do manufacturers sell these products and instructors teach their classes with a totally different setup...where the alternate has the longer hose.