Rescue diver certification as a medical doctor: EFR needed?

[Kmart4321]

I taught rescue class that had a physicians assistant with 15 years of er experience that was a paramedic before that. There was also a combat medic and his pharmacist wife. Guess who taught the neuro exam? Not me. I talked about the book version but the pa and medic showed how it's really done in the field in an emergency situation. Making a medical professional take an efr course just seems downright disrepectful and unnecessary.

I am an advanced care paramedic. I have to recertify in BLS anf ACLS every two years to maintain my license.
Seems repetitive but once we get going as a group in scenarios it helps build cohesiveness and good communication in the providers that we can then take to the streets.
I have been taking courses for 25 years+ regularily and there has yet to have been an oppurtunity to not correct a poor habit or learn/practise new skills.
Education is never a bad thing imho when it comes to lifesaving skills.
Cheers
Kmart

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with Jim in that making a Dr. take EFR or similar course is unnecessary, probably disrespectful, if not just downright silly. I've taken EFR twice and St. Johns Ambulance (Canada) twice (since 2006). Each time there was no real written test that was graded, and EVERYONE passed by just doing what the instructor said to do that day (how does that mean you "passed" a course?). How many people in those classes who were there because of their employers' requirement actually skim through a page of the manual daily like I do? But I've ranted about that before. I would assume any Dr. could teach EFR/CPR, etc. as well as any of the instructors I've had. Heck, a PADI DM can take about a 14 hour weekend course and become an EFR INSTRUCTOR! I considered that, but there is a separate yearly EFR Instructor card renewal fee requirement, as opposed to just taking the course every 2-3 years and paying about the same as that Instructor YEARLY fee. I looked into doing the EFR Instr. course just to avoid having to TAKE EFR every 2 years, but it would cost me MORE.

 

[Pin83]

Tryptanol, firstly, congrats on almost finishing med school. I know that's a tough few years...I'm third year med myself.

Anyway, prior to my midlife crisis / return to uni, I was a paramedic for 10 years (still am, one day a week). I also divemaster for a local shop occasionally (when I have time!), and have to re certify my CPR and O2 yearly (and first-aid 3-yearly) for my DM rating. Since I also have to do these yearly through work, my shop has been happy for me to provide evidence of this and call it done. This has been fine through SSI and RAID, and also for SSI and SDI at another shop many years ago (rescue).

I think there is a bit of latitude, but also variation between shops, so it can't hurt to ask. Having said that, when I started med school a first-aid cert was a pre-req, and nobody knew of a process to accept my qualifications in leiu, so I had to get one. Luckily, my employer is also a registered provider of the course, so I didn't actually have to do one...

Dave.

 

[Redshift]

Making a medical doctor take an EFR course makes a lot of sense for most doctors. Just think how many doctor specialties there are and how many are involved with emergency care. A very small percentage. That's why the requirements don't mention anything about one's profession, but a particular qualification. What I don't understand is how some people apparently didn't get their training and certifications recognized when they were more than valid while others did... Maybe some instructors being too strict on the way they read the PADI standards or not taking the time to talk to PADI?

 

[Nasser]

I can't speak for any MD's here but if a doctor doesn't already have the very basic Primary and Secondary care down that an EFR course teaches... then I probably don't want that doctor coming near me. We're not talking Neurosurgery here, this is just basic Emergency First Response training that any nurse, paramedic, or MD should already have... heck even Boy Scouts learn this stuff.

I think it's silly to require qualified physicians to take the course, unless of course they want to.

 

[RJP]

I can't speak for any MD's here but if a doctor doesn't already have the very basic Primary and Secondary care down that an EFR course teaches... then I probably don't want that doctor coming near me. We're not talking Neurosurgery here, this is just basic Emergency First Response training that any nurse, paramedic, or MD should already have... heck even Boy Scouts learn this stuff.

I think it's silly to require qualified physicians to take the course, unless of course they want to.

There's a huge difference between being a "qualified" paramedic and being a "qualified" nurse or MD. A Paramedic, due to the specifics of their job will have an almost 100% chance of being current in their CPR/AED/etc training and certification and will have an almost high a likelihood of having used such training in the field regularly.

A nurse or MD could be a phenomenal nurse or MD - and may well have been certified and trained at some point in time - but depending on exactly what kind of medicine they practice or the environment in which they practice may be years and years away from such training/certification and could easily go an entire career without ever actually employing such skills in the field. The aforementioned Boy Scout is more likely to know the current CPR standards than many nurses and doctors.

 

[ffdiver]

My understanding is that a MD/ RN/EMT would be excused from the first aid portion but must still have a current cpr card. Which acls PALS, PEEP, PHTLS isn't.

I don't think it's a big deal to keep a cpr card current as a medic or MD. You can easily challenge the course and get your card after performing two skills, at least with aha.

 

[TMHeimer]

RJP, Yes, you make a pretty good point here that I have thought about. One may think though that Dr.s and nurses perhaps shouldn't need anything more than to be informed on the little changes the EFR/CPR folks like to make over the years, rather than taking the full course. Maybe not, you could be right.

 

[kwinter]

I think it's actually more important for a medical practitioner to undergo first aid training. They probably have periodic CPR training, although I've seen some very poor skills among doctors and nurses. But first aid skills are hardly ever taught, especially to doctors. No offense to Lynne, but most physicians, even some ER docs, would be inept at bandaging and splinting if they didn't have nurses to help. Theory is one thing. Practical skills are something else.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[Lorenzoid]

In the time a medical professional could spend getting the requirement waived through official channels, he or she could have taken the EFR class and been done with it, and felt good about the opportunity to pass on some enhanced knowledge to classmates. EFR takes, what, three hours?