Suggestion Rename forum: DIR -> GUE

[Subcooled]

Do It Right.

Right. A back plate is the absolutely wrong piece of equipment for certain types of diving (sump diving). Hence, GUE would be the neutral and appropriate term for a certain equipment configuration & procedures. Besides, give credit to the organization that deserves it. It's about time to forget absolute truths.

 

[FinnMom]

How about "DIR / GUE"?

 

[diversteve]

OK, good points, I understand.
(still dont like the acronym but having both GUE, UTD and HOG, ... would be a pain)

There is a HOG forum - http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/hogarthian-diving/

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Some yes and some no. Generally, ideas such as initial training (fundies/essentials), gear and config, std gases, mindeco etc are very similar.

One of the founders of UTD was the training director of GUE so they are very similar.

On the west coast I dive with UTD and GUE teams and they integrate very well.

Both agencies have their standards posted so it's easy to compare them.

Gear requirements/config are almost identical as well as most protocols when it comes to back mounted, open circuit diving. Although I've been out of the GUE loop for over 10 years so there are more current GUE guys that can add their 2 PSI.


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Well the reason I asked is because if there was any difference then which one would be DIR?
See what I mean, who then would be right.
Can there only be one DIR?, or are there many variations of DIR depending on who and how they are implementing it.
So from what I understand, anybody can be DIR but not be GUE (unless they have been trained and certed as such), but anybody who is GUE is DIR automatically, or are they?
I know a guy who is GUE trained with a rec pass but refuses to acknowledge himself as DIR because he severely dislikes the whole stigma from years past associated with that name.
That's why I thought a separate GUE forum would be good because then it would separate out the real thing from every DIR wannabe out there.

And with me, taking GUE courses is not off the table, nothing is ever off the table. You never know, I may just go that route someday.

 

[tomfcrist]

We are getting right back to this superiority complex that turned 90% of people away from GUE and DIR to begin with.

Let me say this once...very clearly: There is no heiarchy within diving. No one agency or one system works for everybody, and on the same note there is no rank system within our sport. If you think being a GUE diver makes you somehow better or more competent than another diver just because you have a GUE cert, you are a pompous *******. We are all here to have fun, we dive to have fun. The longer you stay in this sport the more clear you see it for what it is. DIR is a system/concept that predates GUE. GUE is not "the real thing"...it's one interpretation of DIR. Other interpretations include sidemount etc...

There are 1000 ways to skin a cat, and no matter which way you choose, you are still likely to be a serial killer you sick bastard.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Well the reason I asked is because if there was any difference then which one would be DIR?
See what I mean, who then would be right.
Can there only be one DIR?, or are there many variations of DIR depending on who and how they are implementing it.
So from what I understand, anybody can be DIR but not be GUE (unless they have been trained and certed as such), but anybody who is GUE is DIR automatically, or are they?
I know a guy who is GUE trained with a rec pass but refuses to acknowledge himself as DIR because he severely dislikes the whole stigma from years past associated with that name.
That's why I thought a separate GUE forum would be good because then it would separate out the real thing from every DIR wannabe out there.

And with me, taking GUE courses is not off the table, nothing is ever off the table. You never know, I may just go that route someday.

GUE doesn't use the term DIR in their training. Halcyon disassociated its equipment from DIR. Just too many people butt hurt 20 years later and have nothing better to do than cry about how DIR ruined their lives...My five year old has a better sense of letting things go than to people on the boards with DIR this, and DIR that...AND I heard this DIR diver say this.

[video=youtube;L0MK7qz13ubU]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13ubU[/video]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU

 

[Dhboner]

I am not GUE certified but one of my sons is and many of our dive community have come up through the GUE ranks and I will say that Tom Crist is right when he states that no one agency or instructor is the greatest but the GUE trained divers I see every weekend are some of the most skilled and safe divers I know. I disagree with a few of their principles (of course I do I dive sidemount in open water) but there is no denying that their curriculum is thorough and very tough, their pass standard is high and non-negotiable and they put an emphasis on diver fitness (you must be a non-smoker and pass a pretty tough swimming test to train with GUE). GUE divers are not inherently "the best" but in my experience there is a more consistent training arc with GUE than other agencies. I know PADI and NAUI certified divers that I wouldn't dive in a swimming pool with but any "Fundies" grad I have buddy'd up with was rock solid in the water. Although having said all that if you take your training from Steve Lewis (as I did) you will end up safe, competent and skilled.

 

[decompression]

I'll agree with some points Tom and Dh posted. There was a very bad stigma in the 90's with regard to DIR, both ways. BUT, I wholeheartedly agree that generally "DIR" trained divers are superior to conventional divers. At least the skills I regard as important are stressed in DIR and either glazed over or not even mentioned in conventional scuba (buoyancy, trim, situational awareness, RB, etc).

Although, DIR training can't have the mass success that conventional scuba does. But maybe, just maybe we could sneak some DIR skills in without them knowing.........


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[Eric Sedletzky]

We are getting right back to this superiority complex that turned 90% of people away from GUE and DIR to begin with.

Let me say this once...very clearly: There is no heiarchy within diving. No one agency or one system works for everybody, and on the same note there is no rank system within our sport. If you think being a GUE diver makes you somehow better or more competent than another diver just because you have a GUE cert, you are a pompous *******. We are all here to have fun, we dive to have fun. The longer you stay in this sport the more clear you see it for what it is. DIR is a system/concept that predates GUE. GUE is not "the real thing"...it's one interpretation of DIR. Other interpretations include sidemount etc...

There are 1000 ways to skin a cat, and no matter which way you choose, you are still likely to be a serial killer you sick bastard.

Now I'm really confused.
So I know this much so far:
DIR is older than GUE.
But DIR encompasses more than GUE including sidemount?
(Do CCR's fall under the DIR umbrella?)
DIR is a philosophy and GUE is an actual agency, but GUE has standards that were originally DIR but now DIR means all sorts of other things that aren't the viewpoints of GUE?
So far so good?

What I remember: was that in order to be DIR there was certain gear requirements, certain protocols, and exacting standards that went with the program. It was/is a holistic system, if one thing is removed or changed then it isn't DIR. I guess part of the reason is in the event of a silt out or black out conditions each diver in the team would know exactly where everything was on his/her buddy. And then I remember something about a diver can dive anyway they want but unless they are doing everything the DIR way (including another DIR buddy)then they aren't DIR by definition.

So you're saying I'm a pompous ******* even though I'm not DIR or GUE simply because I'm uninformed of the technicalities and don't fully understand so I ask questions?
It's fine if I'm a pompous *******, I've been called worse.
Maybe clear that up a little for me.
Thanx

 

[chillyinCanada]

So it still sounds like religion.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

People seem to really get hung up on DIR.
Everyone except for the GUE trained people I know.
I rarely hear the term being used among myself or buddies that have taken a fundamentals course.
Most of us use what we were taught as a great foundation for further training. Rebreather, and wreck penetration, are a couple of courses that aren't offered through GUE. *
So the fundamentals course was a great start for many of us, but that's it.
None of us are really that concerned about what "DIR" is or isn't.
It always seems odd to me that so many on this forum seem to have a bone to pick with "DIR".
I dive sidemount, a rebreather, and am probably going to buy a Kraken soon.
So not much of what I'm doing is currently fitting what I learned in my fundamentals (regarding the equipment configuration). ........but it sure did provide me a great foundation to build my personal diving on.
It has also had a strong and positive effect on how I teach a class.
I don't get why the "DIR" thing gets brought up like it frequently does. I have a hard time believing that divers are that thin skinned, particularly by an acronym that was dropped awhile ago.

*I am aware of the rebreather training progression and equipment choice for GUE.