DIR- Generic Removing kit (BP/W) underwater - risk/reward & weighting

[randini]

I always thought that the rig doff/don while UW was more of a watermanship (waterpersonship?) challenge. Something to force the candidate to work through in a thoughtful manner and show how comfortable they are in the water rather than a real world skill that needs to be learned.

As for weighting, use a weight belt with just enough lead to offset the buoyancy of the suit and bioprene. Any more goes on the rig.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I always thought that the rig doff/don while UW was more of a watermanship (waterpersonship?) challenge. Something to force the candidate to work through in a thoughtful manner and show how comfortable the candidate is in the water rather than a real world skill that needs to be learned.

Dealing with entanglements is a legitimate issue, however it is best for a dive buddy to take care of for you, which is inline with DIR philosophy of team based diving and the buddy system that is universal in open water. Unless the entanglements are really bad, buddies should be able to help each other.

Having dealt with an entanglement with single tank diving (plus pony) while solo diving was a PITA. Hence my preferred configuration for solo diving is sidemount.

I think this skill is a relic from the past and should be removed from open water courses. If you are not having students do it in open water, then there really is no point to do it in confined water.

 

[Celt]

Unfortunately diving like other things is dumbed down. With a balanced rig and weight split between drysuit and twinset. I hold the wing inflator in my left hand loosen the waist buckle and shift the suit inflator, dump a little from the suit and pump the wing just enough to lift the weight of the twinset. Open the waist buckle and reach back with my right hand, grab the cross bar and pull the tanks out over my head, it’s effortless. You need a balanced rig, I’ve no idea why someone would dive with a rig too heavy without a diver in it? Or a diver too heavy without his rig. Crazy!

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Unfortunately diving like other things is dumbed down. With a balanced rig and weight split between drysuit and twinset. I hold the wing inflator in my left hand loosen the waist buckle and shift the suit inflator, dump a little from the suit and pump the wing just enough to lift the weight of the twinset. Open the waist buckle and reach back with my right hand, grab the cross bar and pull the tanks out over my head, it’s effortless. You need a balanced rig, I’ve no idea why someone would dive with a rig too heavy without a diver in it? Or a diver too heavy without his rig. Crazy!

Would you mind posting a demonstration video of you doing this in cold water?

 

[Celt]

Would you mind posting a demonstration video of you doing this in cold water?

What do you need explained.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

What do you need explained.

I don't need anything explained. As you claim it is just so simple, I'd like to see you actually do it.

This isn't the first time I've been down this road on ScubaBoard.

 

[stepfen]

Must have been, aluminum doubles?
I would like to see that with 104s

They were definitely steel - nobody does aluminum doubles here. I don't dive doubles so I'm not sure about the details, but I think they are/were 2*12lt concave - the most common size used around Europe.
Remember it was not just the tanks, but tanks with BPW so the wing had obviously some air to make the whole thing neutral...

 

[Cthippo]

Unfortunately diving like other things is dumbed down. With a balanced rig and weight split between drysuit and twinset. I hold the wing inflator in my left hand loosen the waist buckle and shift the suit inflator, dump a little from the suit and pump the wing just enough to lift the weight of the twinset. Open the waist buckle and reach back with my right hand, grab the cross bar and pull the tanks out over my head, it’s effortless. You need a balanced rig, I’ve no idea why someone would dive with a rig too heavy without a diver in it? Or a diver too heavy without his rig

It's more a functuon of being too light without a rig. My body plus my 3/2 wetsuit is 30 lbs positive. Even with the secondary weight harness, I still need half of that on my BCD. I can balance the weight in the BCD with air, but I cannot achieve neutrality without the weights in the BCD.

 

[rjack321]

Good point. I seem to have muddied the waters here. I originally wanted to hear from DIR divers to see if there was anything I was missing or anything I hadn't thought of. But I guess I already sidetracked my own thread by mentioning solo diving, even if it was only to make a point. And I shouldn't have encouraged the obvious non-DIR responses, I just got carried away.

Anyways, my bad. I got my answer, and if the mods want to delete or move this thread they can do it with my blessing.

So you have 3 sets of answers...

DIR: it's dumb to expect to ditch your gear, there's no need and it can do more harm than good. There are far more important skills you need to actually learn and master.

Other agencies (PADI, NAUI, SSI, others): We require you to do this in a pool or confined water to develop "comfort" in the water which we really have no way of assessing anyway. Doing this on a real dive is not necessary. If it makes you feel like a Gravy Seal then mission accomplished.

Scubaboard randos: This is a VERY important skill and you're gonna die on your solo pony bottle dive when you get tangled in your own SMB and can't take off your BP/W midwater to pull your own line off your valve.

Who you gonna listen to and why?

 

[James79]

So you have 3 sets of answers...

DIR: it's dumb to expect to ditch your gear, there's no need and it can do more harm than good. There are far more important skills you need to actually learn and master.

Other agencies (PADI, NAUI, SSI, others): We require you to do this in a pool or confined water to develop "comfort" in the water which we really have no way of assessing anyway. Doing this on a real dive is not necessary. If it makes you feel like a Gravy Seal then mission accomplished.

Scubaboard randos: This is a VERY important skill and you're gonna die on your solo pony bottle dive when you get tangled in your own SMB and can't take off your BP/W midwater to pull your own line off your valve.

Who you gonna listen to and why?

How about option 4: Can be useful for things like clearing an entaglement, checking suspected leaks, and adjusting tank position without surfacing... but isn't an "or you will die" skill. Not a party trick, not critical, occasionally useful.

Respectfully,

James