Relocation of bottom dumps?

[Charlie99]

The OPVs on the Ranger BCs are ....on the "diver side" of the bladder (not the tank side).

The OPVs were moved to the opposite side (tank side) on the Zena, Lazer, Stiletto, and Escape models. All others have not changed.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of one side vs. the other?

 

[ScottZeagle]

On the single bag bladders, which use bungee cords to hold the bladder in, the OPV cord could sometimes get snagged in the hook of the bungee. By moving the OPVs to the rear of the BC, it eliminates that possibility.

 

[Oceanseleven]

Thanks for the clarification Scott. I appreciate it. As far as location and orientation, wouldn't it make more sense to put the dumps on the tank side. In a horizontal swimming position or head faced slightly down to descend it doesn't make sense to have them on the diver's side. Air goes to the highest point, tank side would be the highest point. Any discusion of changing the OPV's to the tank side on the Ranger?

 

[ScottZeagle]

They would be in the exact same location, bladder wise - just on the opposite side. If you are in the water, and pull the OPV cord, the water pressure on the bladder should force the air out - regardless of which side the OPV was on.

That being said, who knows what the future will bring...

 

[hdtran]

On the single bag bladders, which use bungee cords to hold the bladder in, the OPV cord could sometimes get snagged in the hook of the bungee. By moving the OPVs to the rear of the BC, it eliminates that possibility.

That's exactly what happened to me when doing a "gigantic" stride entry (as opposed to merely giant stride). Although it's not the bungee hook, the OPV string just wraps around the bungee, so that when you pull on the OPV button, you pull the bungee and not the valve You then reposition your body so the shoulder is up, and press the deflate button

Scubatoys is kindly replacing the bladder with a current bladder & UPS-ing (is that a verb?) back to me.

 

[rjsimp]

They would be in the exact same location, bladder wise - just on the opposite side. If you are in the water, and pull the OPV cord, the water pressure on the bladder should force the air out - regardless of which side the OPV was on.

That being said, who knows what the future will bring...

Scott,

I just bought a Brigade in the last couple of months and took it to Grand Cayman. I also purchased the same BC for my Son and my Daughter got the Zema. Anyhow, they all have the same problem of not being able to dump air from the inflator button or pulling the inflator hose unless you either did a 360 or you went into a vertical position.

When swimming normal, the sholder dump doesn't do anything and the dump on the bottom doesn't do anything. If you think about it, water presure forces air to the highest point which is not on the bottom so there IS a difference. My Daughter's BC had the dump valve on the tank side and it worked sometimes (only has it on one side and doesn't dump air on the opposite side.

Needless to say, I did a lot of 360s and my kids were baffled as to why when I told them to dump air, they couldn't. I have other branded BCs that don't have this problem.

I really like the fit and idea behind your BCs, but I really encourage you to work on a better design for dumping air and getting your trim set right. That would make the BC a much better BC for all divers.

Scuba toys was kind enough to replace the bladders on the two brigades which bladders that have dual dumps on the tank side. I have yet to try them on a real dive, but I have played in the pool a little. Its just hard to tell how that will work. Ideally you would have a design that allows the air to collect at the sholder dump when swimming normal. This way, you could dump most of your air with just a simple tug on the inflator hose.

 

[Jasonmh]

Scott,

...they all have the same problem of not being able to dump air from the inflator button or pulling the inflator hose unless you either did a 360 or you went into a vertical position.

I really like the fit and idea behind your BCs, but I really encourage you to work on a better design for dumping air and getting your trim set right. That would make the BC a much better BC for all divers.

... Ideally you would have a design that allows the air to collect at the sholder dump when swimming normal. This way, you could dump most of your air with just a simple tug on the inflator hose.

You should be able to dump with a slight tilt either head up or head down, and using the appropriate valve. I have used the concept and the ranger (not the brigade) and had no trouble dumping.
If a BC were designed to collect the air at the shoulder dump when swimming horizontally that would really throw off your trim. Imagine having all the air in your BC at your shoulders, but most of your weight on your waist (either belt or integrated pockets). That would want to make you vertical I think.

 

[Firefyter]

If a BC were designed to collect the air at the shoulder dump when swimming horizontally that would really throw off your trim. Imagine having all the air in your BC at your shoulders, but most of your weight on your waist (either belt or integrated pockets). That would want to make you vertical I think.

Exactly. I have the Brigade, and I have no trouble dumping air whatsoever. Besides, if you're constantly having to add or dump air, there are other issues that need to be addressed, such as weighting. Once I get neutral, I rarely touch my inflator or dumps until time to do my safety stop.

 

[rjsimp]

Exactly. I have the Brigade, and I have no trouble dumping air whatsoever. Besides, if you're constantly having to add or dump air, there are other issues that need to be addressed, such as weighting. Once I get neutral, I rarely touch my inflator or dumps until time to do my safety stop.

Yes, I understand that dumping air is not something you normally have to do in a perfect world and a lot of people tell me so because that is how they dive. But believe it or not, when you have a suit on there IS compression at depth and you add air to compensate for the loss of boyancy. I would rather be neutral on a wall so it is easier to take pictures than having to fight to stay there. As you come up to a shallower depth with a tank that is getting close to empty, you have to dump any air that you added at depth. I'm not sure how to get around this dump other than to fight the ballooning effect. Again, I would prefer to be neutral.

At this point, dumping air from the BC at least with the older style bladder is NOT as easy as it should be or as easy as the other BCs I have. That is all I am saying. I didn't say I couldn't dump it, just that it is a poor design. Ironically, I am not the only one that figured out doing a 360 was the easiest way to dump all the air from the BC as someone else posted a message about having to do that in another thread. I will give the newer style bladder a try when I get a chance in open water and see how it goes.

I will try the tilting more of the sholder.. see if that works better.. Maybe I wasn't patient enough to let the air bubble get there when I tried it before. I just wish it was more consistent with other BCs I have.

 

[Damselfish]

When I tried one of with the dump on the diver side, I think maybe it was ok if there was alot of air in there, but getting the last bit out seems harder with the dump on the bottom.

Yeh I thought of that also. But it is rare that I go down head first. Once I'm down I may go deeper head first but by then all the air is out anyway. While starting out at the surface do you ever just pull on your inflator hose to let the air out or do you always raise it above your head?

Maybe you don't go down head first, but some people do. And if I'm horizontal and want to dump air, the easiest move for me is to just stick my butt up a little so the air goes to the bottom dump, then I can flatten back out. Its not really a change in orientation at all.