regulators for new diver + assembly question

[matrium]

Hi,

i am new to the sport and just in the process of buying my BP/W set (Agir-Brokk most likely). Since i know i am hooked for life i plan on buying my own regulator too.

I am thinking about the following:
Atomic Aquatics Z3: I read so many good things about it, that i am pretty sure i want it, but i still want to hear your opinion. One thing i am not sure about is if the swivel is really worth the extra 100 over the Z2? Is there any other difference beween those two?
Atomic Aquatics SS1: Again i read a lot of good things about it. Also i really like the "octopus integrated into inflator" idea. I understand the downsides but i am confident that with some training i will overcome them.

Now i am really not familiar with the parts. Is there anything else (extra hose or whatever) i need if i want to attach the SS1 to my Agir-Brokk wing? I ASSUME that this shouldn't be a problem, but then again: what do i know?

 

[gopbroek]

I got a used T2 a few years back and initially I did not truly appreciate how easy a breather it was. Recently while waiting for a replacement part for it I barrowed a friend’s SP S600, which is also a very good regulator, but it felt like I was pulling on a siphon hose. Nothing wrong with the S600 it just the Atomic was so effortless to breathe thru and I had become used to it. My T2 came with the AA swivel hose but I replaced it with a DGX flex hose which reduced the side loading much better than the swivel. Note with a standard LP hose fitting I needed a spacer on the inlet tube to keep in from ‘floating’.

 

[tbone1004]

avoid the SS1, they're stupid, but it will attach to the wing, they come with hose adapters if you so choose to go that route. Buy matching second stages, and put on appropriate length hoses. Swivel first stage is worth, but the swivel second stages aren't. You can buy omniswivels for $100 or the ODS ones for $25, and then use normal hoses

This is what you have to do. Look at your end goal of diving and work backwards. You have already realized the benefits of a BP/W over a stab jacket, so look at the divers that helped to direct you in that way and the divers that use that type of equipment and the regulator configurations that we use. There are two schools of thought for this regarding the primary *40" ish on a swivel and up under the shoulder, or a 5/7' hose in a hog loop. I subscribe to the first for open water diving, but neither is wrong, and both are infinitely better than other hose routing decisions*.
http://www.diverite.com/products/catalog/regulators/pk5300-ow
Look there, and look at the videos attached to it. That is essentially what you want. You can opt for a 5 or 7' long hose instead of the primary on the 40/swivel, but the short secondary, and short inflator/hp hose lengths are what you want if you have any tech aspirations. Will save you buying in the future

 

[BoltSnap]

Atomic Aquatics Z3: I read so many good things about it, that i am pretty sure i want it, but i still want to hear your opinion. One thing i am not sure about is if the swivel is really worth the extra 100 over the Z2? Is there any other difference beween those two?

Nope, it isn't at all!!! You should get the Z2 with "SEALED" first stage which is far more worth it. If you require a swivel at for the second stage, get the OMNI Swivel as it would work with all hoses (make sure that you get the required nut for the Atomic second stage if you get the OMNI swivel).

There are no differences between the Z3 and Z2 otherwise.

The Atomic Swivel is fixed to the hose and it wouldn't transfer to a new hose if and when you replace the hose btw.

There is nothing "stupid" or wrong with the SS1, just a different concept and a mind set and it works just fine. You need to understand that in case your buddy is OOA and needs to share your air with you, you need to donate your primary and you need to grab the SS1. You should buy a longer hose for the primary SS, a 42" is good with a swivel and routed under right arm.

 

[tbone1004]

yeah, and then you have to breathe off of that thing in an emergency while simultaneously trying to dump the wing on a vertical air sharing ascent, it's far from the best option, and certainly not the safest....

What country are you in for reference? The Atomics may not be the best option if you are outside of the US. If you are travelling regularly, I would go with the Scubapro MK25/S600 or G260 instead, much easier to find service globally

 

[BoltSnap]

What country are you in for reference? The Atomics may not be the best option if you are outside of the US. If you are travelling regularly, I would go with the Scubapro MK25/S600 or G260 instead, much easier to find service globally

Why so? Atomic has presence in Europe no problem.

 

[matrium]

yeah, and then you have to breathe off of that thing in an emergency while simultaneously trying to dump the wing on a vertical air sharing ascent, it's far from the best option, and certainly not the safest

You are surely right, it could complicate things, but i think with some training i can handle it. In the few dives i already did, using rental BCDs, it SEEMED that raising the inflator above my head wasn't REALLY necessary anyway. I could still get rid of most of the air (certainly enough to prevent an uncontrolled ascend) while keeping it where it usually is. What is your experience with this?
I guess i have to test this with my new BP/W setup. I agree that in a stressful emergency situation raising the inflator (which i would also be breathing from) above the head could be difficult and increase stress further.

On the upside you always know where your alternate air source is. I only have 8 dives or so, but i have already seen a lot of octopuses swinging around some of the other divers, because they got loose or something. Also during the OW course 2 divers failed to free their octopus fast (of course we all had no experience). I think i am not someone who freaks out easily, so i think the single most important thing in an emergency is to have both divers sucking air asap. After that there is enough time. Of course that is easy to say in front of my computer at home , i might feel different in the case of a true emergency.

I am pretty sure i will be a recreational diver always. I can see myself diving SOME easier caves someday (already did Cenote in Mexico), but certainly not something so tight that i need a sidemount or a very long hose so someone can dive behind me.

 

[tbone1004]

put your secondary on a suicide strap/necklace, then you always know that it's right under your chin where in a real emergency you can get at it without using your hands...

Atomic service in Europe isn't an issue, but I wouldn't pay the premium over Scubapro if I was travelling regularly, granted if I was doing primarily salt water, I wouldn't use any pistons regardless of brand and would choose Apeks ATX50/DST or XTX50/DST with an a/xTX40 or 50 as a secondary. Dive Rite XT Advanced OW set would be my first real choice though as you can service them yourself if you so choose.

Watch the videos in my first post, they're very valuable. There are other similar videos on youtube showing "tech" style air sharing where you donate the primary and you grab the secondary that is right under your chin. That is infinitely better than any air2 type combo deal.

 

[halocline]

You are surely right, it could complicate things, but i think with some training i can handle it. In the few dives i already did, using rental BCDs, it SEEMED that raising the inflator above my head wasn't REALLY necessary anyway....

On the upside you always know where your alternate air source is.

I think you might benefit from trying to figure out what the advantage of the octo/inflator is. One fewer hose? That's not really an advantage in the water. It just "seems like it" in a dive shop showroom. The big disadvantages are: 1) you need a longer-than-necessary corrugated BC hose, which adds clutter to your chest area. 2) your inflator, which you use very frequently BTW, is now bigger and more complicated than it needs to be. More clutter and potential confusion in inflating/deflating your wing. Don't forget, someone else might have to do that for you in an emergency. 3) If you have a problem with the regulator or BC on a trip, you can't simply switch to another because the LP inflator hose has a proprietary connector. 4) Imagine a leak at either the inflator mechanism OR the alternate 2nd stage. With one of these contraptions, you lose both if you have to disconnect due to a problem in either. Leaky inflators are not uncommon. With a normal inflator, that just means you have to orally inflate. With an octo/inflator, it means you lose your alternate 2nd stage or continue the dive with a leaking inflator. 5) Air sharing is complicated by the fact that you now have to remove your 2nd stage in order to fully vent your wing in some positions.

They don't tell you this stuff at the dive shop while they're crowing about one less hose......

Now, for the upside that you mentioned, you do know where it is, but that's also true with an alternate on a short hose with a bungee necklace. In fact, you can even get it hands free with a little practice. It's a much better configuration. The tech guys really have this one figured out.

Reconsider the octo/inflator, you'll be happier without it.

 

[admikar]

What tbone said.
I went with Apeks DST/XTX 50. I really love how your secondary pops in front of your mouth if you go slightly head down. If you need to swap your primary for your secondary, no thinking where to stove it, just clip it to your shoulder D-ring ( you do need to put a boltsnap on your primary though). I don't know about Atomics regs, but I also like adjustable second stage.