Regulator service: acceptable treatment?

[Peter69_56]

Chriostolube is expensive. $10.00 does not seem unreasonable.

After opening the reg up and inspecting, I suggest they used a match head of lube. Based on the amount used a $25 tube of lube would do a hundred regs or more. At $10 each that's not bad markup in anyones terms.

What about the $29 for an $8 mouthpiece. I have seen the same mouthpiece in a number of other dive shops for $8, exact same one. They sell it for a profit at $8, but this dive shop seems to need a $29 price tag for the same item.

Sorry this guy took me to the cleaners and didn't do a good job in the process.

---------- Post added April 19th, 2014 at 12:12 AM ----------

If it was for packing the chamber, then it would have been a lot, lot more. A small tube of it runs $45 retail. You can find it for less, but why expect a shop to sell it to you at their cost. As for the cost of the kit, I just don't see that as outrageous if it includes the diaphragm and seat. Again, we're talking retail and not shop cost.

Hey, we all hate "add-ons". Get on a plane and instead of increasing the ticket price, they charge you dearly for your bag. Go to the sutoshop and you'll likely see a "Shop supplies" and even a "Disposal" charge. Why? These costs have sky rocketed over the past 20 years. You can't simply dump this crap down the drain any more or the EPA will put your butt in a sling. If you think it's bad at the shop end, it's even worse at the manufacturer's end which is why all this stuff is skyrocketing in price. When I worked as a service manager I was careful to give quotes that included all of the extras, including shop fees and taxes. I wanted no surprises when Joe Customer came to pick up his ride. I wasn't always that way. I started working on cars in 1969 and things were a lot looser and cheaper back then. The rules have changed, and it doesn't matter if you like them or not: you still have to follow them. In 1969 we simply blew out the dust from a car's brake system with compressed air. Now we have to use a dedicated brake washer and dispose of the fluid in an Eco-friendly way. It costs more for a mechanic to work on your car and instead of increasing the price on brakes, they add a shop fee. As these costs increased, I found my self sometimes at odds with customers. I didn't like that, so I eventually learned to be incredibly detailed and clear. Did I become more honest over time? No. I simply learned to communicate more frequently and completely. What people saw as being honest was merely an attempt to avoid needless confrontations. Some people learn this quickly and others never can figure it out. Hey, I communicate better now as a dive buddy and instructor than I did ten years ago. Ask Elena!

I agree, with diaphragm and seat it seems reasonable but guess what, they weren't replaced. The diaphragm is surface cracked, and that hasn't happened in the short time it was serviced. He also carefully worded the invoice to say parts as required, O rings etc etc. If you read the invoice word by word it becomes clear that little was done. To me clearly he has charged for items that were never used. Overcharged on other items on the basis I am a shmuck. How can it be explained that Nitrile O rings were still in the O2 clean and service reg? I suggest he used what O ring stock he had and didn't have an odd size so used the existing ring. I believe non of the kits were purchased at all and used. The reg was maybe O2 cleaned, reassembled with what stock he had and then I was charged for the "WORKS".

I did a deco course there and for 2 days for a wing/harness and 2 tanks $300. Again I had trusted the instructor and dive shop to be fair. They were not. Because I didn't ask and trusted them they burnt me. I could have bought much of the gear and just hired the tanks for the cost they charged.

Simply put I will never go back there again, I don't trust them. I go out of my way to report my experiences with them to anyone who is into diving. "Good news travels fast, bad news travels faster" Its the time of the internet.

My new LDS which is IDC Portsea is entirely different. Totally fair and always explains the costs up front. They also have given me a break on some items. To return their commitment I have completed al my courses there and also buy my gear from there. My next purchase will be 2 rebreathers next year. A significant cost but one I am prepared to do with them given their quality customer service.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

After opening the reg up and inspecting, I suggest they used a match head of lube. Based on the amount used a $25 tube of lube would do a hundred regs or more. At $10 each that's not bad markup in anyones terms.

What about the $29 for an $8 mouthpiece. I have seen the same mouthpiece in a number of other dive shops for $8, exact same one. They sell it for a profit at $8, but this dive shop seems to need a $29 price tag for the same item.

Sorry this guy took me to the cleaners and didn't do a good job in the process.

---------- Post added April 19th, 2014 at 12:12 AM ----------



I agree, with diaphragm and seat it seems reasonable but guess what, they weren't replaced. The diaphragm is surface cracked, and that hasn't happened in the short time it was serviced. He also carefully worded the invoice to say parts as required, O rings etc etc. If you read the invoice word by word it becomes clear that little was done. To me clearly he has charged for items that were never used. Overcharged on other items on the basis I am a shmuck. How can it be explained that Nitrile O rings were still in the O2 clean and service reg? I suggest he used what O ring stock he had and didn't have an odd size so used the existing ring. I believe non of the kits were purchased at all and used. The reg was maybe O2 cleaned, reassembled with what stock he had and then I was charged for the "WORKS".

I did a deco course there and for 2 days for a wing/harness and 2 tanks $300. Again I had trusted the instructor and dive shop to be fair. They were not. Because I didn't ask and trusted them they burnt me. I could have bought much of the gear and just hired the tanks for the cost they charged.

Simply put I will never go back there again, I don't trust them. I go out of my way to report my experiences with them to anyone who is into diving. "Good news travels fast, bad news travels faster" Its the time of the internet.

My new LDS which is IDC Portsea is entirely different. Totally fair and always explains the costs up front. They also have given me a break on some items. To return their commitment I have completed al my courses there and also buy my gear from there. My next purchase will be 2 rebreathers next year. A significant cost but one I am prepared to do with them given their quality customer service.

And this is why you don't screw over good customers. I don't and get stuff like this in my emails -

" Also, separate subject, but several of the Marines I've been diving with are picking my brain and looking to me for mentorship as I've been diving a bit more than they have (they're completing AOW, with zero experience dives in between). Some have been looking at gear, and I've discussed the principles in your article with them. Would it be acceptable if I forwarded your article to them? Also, would you be amenable to selling them gear, provided they're interested? Thank you for all the time you're spending on me, it's a huge reason that I plan to buy equipment from you. Most of the other places where I've inquired have either ignored my requests for information or have given me a rather simplistic answer of "any gear will work, don't worry about your setup right now."

Followed by this: "Thank you for the stickers and cards, I'll make sure to put those to good use (probably the XO's bumper, the CO has a map on his door). The extra gift, thank you profusely, I sincerely appreciate it, when I hear of anyone in the market for gear, I will ensure that I either hand them a card or pass your information to them, as doing business was a sheer pleasure. You are an ambassador to the sport, and I'm glad to have made your acquaintance."

When you treat people fairly and don't try to take advantage of them the payoff may not be as immediate but rest assured it does come. I know. One of my biggest customer bases is halfway around the world on an island. I have had them send me regs to service and ship back. When you nickel and dime people in this day and age it comes back to haunt you. It is too easy for them to go on line, ask a question, and find out when someone is giving a line of bovine feces to you.

 

[Peter69_56]

And this is why you don't screw over good customers. I don't and get stuff like this in my emails -

" Also, separate subject, but several of the Marines I've been diving with are picking my brain and looking to me for mentorship as I've been diving a bit more than they have (they're completing AOW, with zero experience dives in between). Some have been looking at gear, and I've discussed the principles in your article with them. Would it be acceptable if I forwarded your article to them? Also, would you be amenable to selling them gear, provided they're interested? Thank you for all the time you're spending on me, it's a huge reason that I plan to buy equipment from you. Most of the other places where I've inquired have either ignored my requests for information or have given me a rather simplistic answer of "any gear will work, don't worry about your setup right now."

Followed by this: "Thank you for the stickers and cards, I'll make sure to put those to good use (probably the XO's bumper, the CO has a map on his door). The extra gift, thank you profusely, I sincerely appreciate it, when I hear of anyone in the market for gear, I will ensure that I either hand them a card or pass your information to them, as doing business was a sheer pleasure. You are an ambassador to the sport, and I'm glad to have made your acquaintance."

When you treat people fairly and don't try to take advantage of them the payoff may not be as immediate but rest assured it does come. I know. One of my biggest customer bases is halfway around the world on an island. I have had them send me regs to service and ship back. When you nickel and dime people in this day and age it comes back to haunt you. It is too easy for them to go on line, ask a question, and find out when someone is giving a line of bovine feces to you.

Jim,

You are right. I am of the old school. You make a promise and thus you are expected to keep it, and as a gentleman you keep your word. I do as I say and expect others to do the same. I try to be totally fair and expect others to do the same. I repay honesty and fairness with respect, assistance and my hard earned dollar. I repay deceit and dishonesty with all the contempt it deserves. I make a point of letting others know about bad businesses. However in saying that I always make sure I am more than fair to the business in my views of them. I try and keep emotion out of the information and try and stick to the facts. I would not desire to run down a business unfairly.

An example is a dive travel consulting business I have done business with in the past. They said they would only provide a quote if I handed over $600 up front to be used if I took their quote. After tooing and frowing with emails, she made it clear that she considered me a serial asker of quotes with no intent to do business, thus the $600 was a way of making me go away. I always ask a number of businesses for quotes and then take the one that suits. I also share my business amongst the consultants in my area. I told her this but she dismissed it and said she had no detail of it. I went searching and showed her I did use her company and the last quote I asked for I was going to accept, but when they asked for about a $1600 deposit for each of us 12 months in advance, I said it seemed excessive and went with another company. I found all the emails associated with it and sent them to her. It was only when I said I would use the internet to convey her way of doing business, that she reconsidered and said perhaps she was hasty. Clearly she realised that her business (which I suspect is struggling thus requiring cash flow) could be severely harmed by me telling others of her way of doing business. Needless to say she didn't get any of my overseas trips in 2013/2014 and 2015 as I was in the process of committing to them all at the time. We spend about $20,000 or more a year on overseas dive travel so she missed out on a significant cash flow, never mind the loss from word of mouth. Seeing she has apologised I will give her one more chance, that is the giving people an opportunity to fix things and being fair part I believe in.

 

[ams511]

If it was for packing the chamber, then it would have been a lot, lot more. A small tube of it runs $45 retail. You can find it for less, but why expect a shop to sell it to you at their cost. As for the cost of the kit, I just don't see that as outrageous if it includes the diaphragm and seat. Again, we're talking retail and not shop cost.

Pete, you are rationalizing not being rational. Think of the golden rule, treat others as you would like to be treated. The only reason shops have these add-ons is to mislead customers by quoting a lower charge. They advertise an oil change for only $19.95 but after the disposal fee, shop fee, and phase of the moon fee the cost is $35.00. Why not advertise the $35.00? then the shop will lose business. I believe most, if not all, customers want to know the complete cost of a good or service before purchasing.

Rather than charge $10 extra for lube (which is outrageous) the shop should just add $10 to the cost of the service and charge $110. Also the prices you quoted for lube is only for Christo or Tribo, given the sorry state of the service these chuckleheads may be using Dow 111 which is significantly cheaper.

 

[nimoh]

Also, would you be amenable to selling them gear, provided they're interested?

What are you the Dive Gear Nazi?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJyGJQx2Fgk

 

[Peter69_56]

Pete, you are rationalizing not being rational. Think of the golden rule, treat others as you would like to be treated. The only reason shops have these add-ons is to mislead customers by quoting a lower charge. They advertise an oil change for only $19.95 but after the disposal fee, shop fee, and phase of the moon fee the cost is $35.00. Why not advertise the $35.00? then the shop will lose business. I believe most, if not all, customers want to know the complete cost of a good or service before purchasing.

Rather than charge $10 extra for lube (which is outrageous) the shop should just add $10 to the cost of the service and charge $110. Also the prices you quoted for lube is only for Christo or Tribo, given the sorry state of the service these chuckleheads may be using Dow 111 which is significantly cheaper.

I guess its about both parties treating each other with the respect both sides deserve.

For the customer, they want a reasonably priced service/article and of quality, and to be able to walk away satisfied.
For the service provider, they need to be able to make a reasonable profit (so as to exist), and yet give customer satisfaction so as to have a loyal customer base.

If both sides can do this then you have satisfied loyal customers who believe in the service provider. The service provider becomes more than willing to assist beyond normal expectations as they know the customers believe in them to be an honest trader. Its about mutual respect for both sides needs and requirements. An honest approach to being fair and reasonable.

Unfortunately it is becoming more so that the customer expects dirt cheap prices but of the best quality, and often are quite happy to screw the service provider into bankruptcy and then laugh about it. Also for the service provider many are happy to screw the customer over and rip them off totally and then deny any wrong doing or liability (the extremes of both sides)

 

[The Chairman]

Pete, you are rationalizing not being rational. Think of the golden rule, treat others as you would like to be treated. The only reason shops have these add-ons is to mislead customers by quoting a lower charge. They advertise an oil change for only $19.95 but after the disposal fee, shop fee, and phase of the moon fee the cost is $35.00. Why not advertise the $35.00? then the shop will lose business. I believe most, if not all, customers want to know the complete cost of a good or service before purchasing.

I agree, but the reality is that this is due to current economics. It seems that everyone does it.

Rather than charge $10 extra for lube (which is outrageous) the shop should just add $10 to the cost of the service and charge $110. Also the prices you quoted for lube is only for Christo or Tribo, given the sorry state of the service these chuckleheads may be using Dow 111 which is significantly cheaper.

It was for oxygen service.

The real problem with the service wasn't the price: it was that the reg failed on the first try. If you're going to be expensive, then you'd best be competent.

 

[ams511]

The real problem with the service wasn't the price: it was that the reg failed on the first try. If you're going to be expensive, then you'd best be competent.

That and the shop may not have replaced all the parts after charging him for the service kits.

 

[The Chairman]

That and the shop may not have replaced all the parts after charging him for the service kits.

Which is probably why the reg failed.

 

[ams511]

I Unfortunately it is becoming more so that the customer expects dirt cheap prices but of the best quality, and often are quite happy to screw the service provider into bankruptcy and then laugh about it. Also for the service provider many are happy to screw the customer over and rip them off totally and then deny any wrong doing or liability (the extremes of both sides)

This is false. There is a price the shop wants to sell at and there is a price the buyer is willing to pay. If both prices match then a transaction occurs and if they don't then it doesn't. A customer cannot screw a service provider into bankruptcy because the provider can always say no. A customer can also say no IF he is given the actual price before the transaction occurs. BUT if the provider mislead the customer about the price then a transaction occurs which should not have.

---------- Post added April 19th, 2014 at 02:12 PM ----------

Which is probably why the reg failed.

I thought the reg actually fell apart not that it just failed.