Regulator Question, is this normal?

[SWAMPY459]

Hi,

I bought my roommate an Edge regulator set. He's had it through about 3 dives. This weekend while diving the keys the reg began do do a very slow free flow, manageable but annoying. When he got back to the hotel room I put it on a tank to see what was wrong and the octo began doing it too.

Having never looked inside a regulator before I decided to see if it was maybe a burst diaphragm or if there was some type of debris in them. I took them apart and put them back together, and it seemed to make the reg worse, but the octo stopped free flowing.

I took it to the dive shop the next morning and they said it "just needed a knife edge adjustment" ... I watched the guy do it, it took him less than a minute with a screw driver (or similar tool) ... he said it was a very simple fix, he just needed to turn an adjustment screw. He didn't even charge me for doing it.

My questions are, is it normal for a new reg to just start slowly free flowing like that?

If its so simple why are regs not designed where you can make that adjustment with an allen wrench or a screw you can get to without taking it apart?

How often can I expect a regulator to do this?

Is this something I can/should learn to fix myself?


If I wanted to take a class in simple regulator repair and servicing (nothing expensive, just to be able to work on my own gear) where would I start looking?

 

[Divescape]

Subscribing so I can benifit from the wisdom of others with far more experience than me. Just from a novice point of view there is a sticky for reulator care and basic maintainence that I found very helpful on the regulator forum.

 

[Diver0001]

Hi,

I bought my roommate an Edge regulator set. He's had it through about 3 dives. This weekend while diving the keys the reg began do do a very slow free flow, manageable but annoying. When he got back to the hotel room I put it on a tank to see what was wrong and the octo began doing it too.

Having never looked inside a regulator before I decided to see if it was maybe a burst diaphragm or if there was some type of debris in them. I took them apart and put them back together, and it seemed to make the reg worse, but the octo stopped free flowing.

I took it to the dive shop the next morning and they said it "just needed a knife edge adjustment" ... I watched the guy do it, it took him less than a minute with a screw driver (or similar tool) ... he said it was a very simple fix, he just needed to turn an adjustment screw. He didn't even charge me for doing it.

My questions are, is it normal for a new reg to just start slowly free flowing like that?

If its so simple why are regs not designed where you can make that adjustment with an allen wrench or a screw you can get to without taking it apart?

How often can I expect a regulator to do this?

Is this something I can/should learn to fix myself?


If I wanted to take a class in simple regulator repair and servicing (nothing expensive, just to be able to work on my own gear) where would I start looking?

In the big picture, two things can cause this. One is the seat "settling in" (ie, cutting into the rubber seat), which often causes new (or newly serviced) regulators to need a "knife edge" adjustment after a few weeks.

The other problem could be a leak in the 1st stage that causes the pressure inside the first stage to go up too high and essentially force the 2nd stage open. This problem is easily observed with a special gauge that you can attach to the inflator hose called an IP meter (IP = intermediate pressure).

R..

 

[randy88k5]

The adjustment that the tech made is a fairly common adjustment. As the regulators break-in, some adjustment may be needed.

This is something you can do yourself, but you would need a pressure gauge to do it properly, and maybe a few other tools.

There are classes out there you can take for regulator servicing. HOG offers classes to technical divers. I would see if there are any HOG dealers in your area that are offering classes, and see what you would need to do before taking the class.

There are also two books out there that are good for learning the basics and great for reference.
Scuba Tools - Regulator Savvy Book
SCUBA REGULATOR MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR by Vance Harlow

 

[PfcAJ]

If it was tuned right from the beginning, it shouldn't really need that. Did the tech check the Intermediate Pressure of the reg?

Doing that maneuver too often can be bad for your reg. Its usually a 'set it and forget it' thing done when the reg is serviced or first assembled.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Not always. Depends on how low the cracking pressure was set. Normally I run mine at about .8 to start cracking. That's after the poppet and seat have had a chance to get cycled a fair number of times. Some regs if set low at the initial assembly and not cycled with a set up like scubatools sells or just given a good breathe and purge cycle by the tech manually can "break in" for lack of a better term and start to develop a light freeflow. It is an easy fix for someone who knows what they are doing and depending on where one buys a reg it may or may not have been adjusted to allow for this. I try to do it on every reg. In the HOG class I recommend divers set the min cracking at 1.0. This is at the direction of the mfg as they know that divers who do their own regs are more than likely not going to sit there and cycle the reg a couple hundred times to allow the components to settle in.

I've seen it happen with numerous mfg's regs. Especially new ones. It is an easy fix but also real easy to screw up big time. Some tend to turn the orifice as much as a full turn and end up with a reg that's like sucking through a straw or not getting anything. I've seen orifices nearly cut clean through because someone got crazy with it and did not use a gauge or in line tool. I never advise and allen wrench or screwdriver. The HOG class requires the diver own an in line adjustment tool. Show up without and you won't get in my class. Often it's just a smidge that it needs turned. The proper way to do it is with a magnahelic or water filled tube to measure the cracking pressure. A sink full of water can also be used.

 

[abyss_scuba]

When you buy a regulator from me I ask that you allot a 1/2 hour when you pick it up. We will adjust it to your likes and show you how to use the adjustments and some simple care. Remember mfg's are making hundreds of these a week some sometimes one or two will leave slighty close to free flow. Glad they took care of it for you, are you a handy person with tools? Maybe you can hang out at the shop and see if you are interested in doing your own maintenece (I won't say repairs as I don't know your qualifications). You can always pick up a trick here or there, but as someone who has been doing repairs for a number of years I can tell you like anything else it is more of a "feel" than just turning this screw or that.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Swampy, don't take this as a flame or shot at you, it's just a bit of correction on your terminolgy. The way you used the term,"slow free flow" , to me is a contradiction of terms. It can be a slow leak or a free flow but I've never seen a slow free flow. It isn't that unusual for a new second stage to need a slight adjustment after it's been used a few times. It would be an excellent idea for you to find a store or even a mentor that can show you how to do some basic maintenance on your equipment. After you have a little time and experience under your belt, you can learn how to fully rebuild your gear, if you so inclined. It truly isn't rocket science, but it isn't always as simple as some make it sound either. Always test everything shallow before taking it deep. 60 ft and sinking fast is not the best place to find out you accidentially forgot to tighten up your hoses.

 

[beaverdivers]

If its so simple why are regs not designed where you can make that adjustment with an allen wrench or a screw you can get to without taking it apart?/

Some regs. come w/ an adjustment knob on the outside. If it leaks, you can adjust it down. It may stop the leak, but it will be harder to breathe.

No, it is not normal for a new reg. to start to leak if it is a good quailty reg. and has been set to proper specs.

The problem could be a high intermediate pressure in the 1st stage or it could be an adjustment to the 2nd stage.

You may want to ask your local shop if they offer classes on equipment. If you are really keen, they may be looking for a part-time repair tech.

It requires a fair investment in proper tools & training to be able to do a full service on a reg.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Inline adjustment tool - 69.00 scubatools
IP gauge - 25.00 scubatools
Pin Spanner 14.00 scubatools
First stage handle 21.00 scubatools or old Co2 cartridge - free
Small crescent wrench (2) 16.00 sears
Flat screw drivers 5.00 sears
Torque wrench inch lbs 20.00 - 100.00 amazon, sears, etc.
Crowsfeet for above 20.00 - sears
brass picks 13.00 or make them your self for 5.00
long hex sockets 15.00 on amazon
fold up allen wrenches -metric and imperial 15.00 sears
Regulator Savvy 32.00 scubatools
Regulator Maintenance and Repair 50.00 airspeed press - optional
Schematics and Manuals for many free at www.frogkick.dk - /
Total of essentials 265.00 optional book not included


Nice to have - ultrasonic cleaner 39.00 - 200.00

Reg specific tools can all be gotten at scuba tools at reasonable prices. Many can be adapted from common household or mechanics tools.


One mfg (HOG) offers factory authorized training for qualified divers. I offer the class for 250 -300 depending on size of class and expenses for travel if any.

If you are careful you can get "fully equipped" to "properly" service your regs for well under $500 easily. Some are able to do it for far less. It's not rocket science and it doesn't take thousands of dollars of equipment as I was told by one shop owner. I just laughed when he told me that.