Regulator kits

[Kim]

You can call this a Zeagle problem if you would like, Scott

Thank you for the reply Scott. I don't think that this is just a Zeagle problem at all. From the above posts only DiveRite apparently will sell kits and manuals to end users (which I don't personally know iif it's true or not). Everyone else doesn't although then it becomes the question of whether it's possible to get the parts/information through other channels - and often it is if you look very hard.
I understand very well that all the legal issues need to be clear, so again, I'm simply discussing - not moaning.

In the end I also believe that even if parts kits were available from manufacturers so people had a choice, it would still only be a few who actually did it - and the vast majority would still prefer to let a technician do it. Of course the other benefit for those who service their own gear is that they will also have a far better understanding of their own equipment than the average diver who just knows that that's what you get your air from underwater. I do a few simple checks before I go on any trips. Stick a pressure gauge onto my inflater hose and check the IP. Pressurize the regs, then turn the air off and check back an hour later to make sure the pressure didn't drop. Of course it then helps to know what to do about it if these would detect any problems! (I also take rebuild kits with me in my save-a-dive box! )

 

[divad]

Can you tell me which companies ARE selling parts directly to consumers? Maybe they know something that we don't - or maybe they just don't have as much to lose...it would be interesting to find out.

Scott

Diverite, Abyss (was), Kirby Morgan.

 

[Tom Winters]

I don't know off the top of my head what our liability would be on something like this, to be quite honest with you. I'm sure there are plenty of capable people who would never have a problem, but if one guy died due to improper service, I'm sure we would be at the top of a lawyers list of people to hold responsible.
Scott

Although a lot of people might say that any waiver is only worth the cost of the paper it's printed on, liability waivers in the dive industry do in fact hold up. Does this mean that no one would ever sue you? Nope - one of the strengths and weaknesses of the American legal system is that anyone can pretty much sue anyone else for pretty near any reason. Whether it would go anywhere in a court of law is another is-she-yew.
I had always wondered about the strength of my liability waivers both teaching and taking people on dives. After I moved to Florida, I actually got to talk to an industry attorney who had handled some of the cases I knew about in Hawaii.
Also Scott, I have met some really boneheaded repair techs - fully factory-authorized, deputized, notarized and legalized who I would hesitate to allow to pump gas in my truck. They never touched my gear, but a lot of stuff went through their benches. So after a shoddy repair of their's kills someone using your regs that they serviced, you know that you're going to be a named defendant in that case.
The people whom I have met who overhaul their own gear are the kind of people who were going to do it anyway - they're not people who decided not to watch Oprah one day and overhaul a reg set to fill 30 minutes. They dive their gear and want to keep it purring. Look at the phenomenal interest in Vance Harlow's regulator book. And Peter Wolfinger at Peter Built sells a ton of stuff to unaffiliated individuals.
Maybe you ought to think about a program to allow individuals to buy repair parts and manuals from you. It cannot hurt your overall sales - you guys make some really righteous gear, and the DIY crowd might help your annual gross more than having your attorneys write up a bulletproof release-of-liability novelette.
I never realized you guys were in Florida also. Not too much Zeagle stuff ever made it out to Oahu while I was there.

 

[doole]

Kim, I believe that Zeagle regs will be sold in Japan by the end of 2005.

I understand all of your points, believe me. However, like I said before, there are a lot more legal questions that need to be answered before any decision can be made.

You can call this a Zeagle problem if you would like, but I think it is pretty much an industry wide standard not to sell service kits direct. If we lose a few reg sales due to it, well, that is the price of doing business, I suppose...

Can you tell me which companies ARE selling parts directly to consumers? Maybe they know something that we don't - or maybe they just don't have as much to lose...it would be interesting to find out.

Scott

Hello Scott.

It is of course true that this is an industry wide standard, but I think it's safe to say that nobody has ever understood why, including me. How is it the cost of doing business? What is the necessity? What exactly is there 'to lose'? If I can buy parts for a car, gun or an airplane direct from the manufacturers, what on earth is the problem with regulators?

Help us Zeagle addicts understand.

 

[jetski781]

I agree with the majority here. Give us the option to rebuild our own regs. I presently own a Scuba Pro reg mainly because I know I can get parts for it (grey market of course). Zeagle would have been my first choice in regs but after an extensive search on the web no parts kits were to be found and Scuba Pro kits were, the reason I own one of their regs. If I had known at the time of purchase that Dive Rite sold kits with less hassle then I would be a Dive Rite owner today. I can't say I trust anyone to work on my regs other than me, I don't care how much training they have had or that it voids the warranty. Just look around on the forum and you will see lots of posts where people are having problems with their regs right after a service by a "Service Tech". Not that I'm saying all service techs don't know what they are doing, I'm sure most are good at what they do and try to do a good job.

Joey

 

[ScottZeagle]

Hello Scott.

It is of course true that this is an industry wide standard, but I think it's safe to say that nobody has ever understood why, including me. How is it the cost of doing business? What is the necessity? What exactly is there 'to lose'? If I can buy parts for a car, gun or an airplane direct from the manufacturers, what on earth is the problem with regulators?

Help us Zeagle addicts understand.

Can you call Dive Rite and order parts directly from them? I asked a couple of our dealers who also carry DiveRite and they didn't know anything about it... :06:

Doole, When I said "it's the cost of doing business" I was reffering to people who state that they will not buy our regs due to our (and most manufacturers) parts policy - a policy which costs you some sales is the cost of doing business, imho.

Have you guys read the thread about "Lawsuits and Manufacturers"? Defending a case, whether you are right or wrong is a huge investment and can kill a small company. Maybe Aqualung, ScubaPro, or even Oceanic could afford to fight that battle, but Zeagle is a small, family owned company.

I don't see any other manufacturers around here to help answer this question, so I am doing the best I can - please don't shoot the messenger!!!

Scott

 

[jonnythan]

Can you call Dive Rite and order parts directly from them? I asked a couple of our dealers who also carry DiveRite and they didn't know anything about it... :06:

http://www.diveriteexpress.com/regs/regulators.shtml

 

[StSomewhere]

http://www.diveriteexpress.com/regs/regulators.shtml

Fill Express is a different entity than Dive Rite.

 

[jetski781]

Hey Scott,
I gotta give credit where credit is due....At least you are in here discussing it with us. You could just as easilly say that's our policy and not go any further with it. I E-mailed Dive Rite to get a definitive answer on your question it's early here or I would have given them a call.

Stsomewhere,
I think Jonnythan was refering to the bottom of the page where the service kits and tools were listed for sale. May not be direct from Dive Rite but at least they are available.

 

[scubamate]

I do most of the equipment service for the LDS I instruct for. I've gone through Zeagle's training along with a half a dozen other brands and my belief is that some people are capable of servicing their regulators. They are not that difficult. I think, in talking to some, that the biggest problem is impatience, most people don't realize it takes anywhere from 2 to 3 hours to properly disassemble, clean, inspect, reassemble, and adjust a complete regulator setup. Granted parts are not that expensive but there is quite a lot of time involved to service a regulator properly.

Scott,
I wonder if Zeagle (or others) were to conduct training seminars for a small fee, if this would lessen the liability? Then you could sell direct to "Factory Trained" service techs.

How many would be willing to pay for this training?