Regulator kits

[ScottZeagle]

I pass on a lot of the info and suggestions (both positive and negative) I get from you guys in our meetings, as I will this one.

I don't know off the top of my head what our liability would be on something like this, to be quite honest with you.

I'm sure there are plenty of capable people who would never have a problem, but if one guy died due to improper service, I'm sure we would be at the top of a lawyers list of people to hold responsible.

I will surely keep you guys posted....

Scott

 

[Caston]

Thanks Scott, thats fair enough. I don't see how Zeagle could be held responsible but I would guess a good lawer would know more about that than I.
Anyway, thanks for listening, it's just a thought.
Keep up the super work ya'll are doing!!!!

Tom

 

[cnctina]

Think of the profit margin that you are loosing. You sell the service manuel that costs you $3 to print for $18-$24. A few 3 cent o-rings and a 5 cent rubber seat in a kit for $12-$16. But instead we buy the stuff on e-bay. How does this help support your local dive stores?
Annual service is overrated anyway, My last reg went 7 years before needing a service an it was the cheapest dacor regulater made.

 

[JustinW]

Critics need to look at the liability. This is life support equipment, one poorly seated oring could cause some serious problems. I'm not even talking about a wrong oring, but a poorly seated oring. The same thing goes with your car, high end mountain bikes with sophisticated suspension systems, computers etc. If you work on them yourself, often times the warranty is voided. Think from the manufacturers perspective. Zeagle and other companies (one can assume) want to offer the best product for the best price. They also want to throw in value added services such as lifetime replacement parts for free (at least some do). They also want to promote the shops that sell the equipment, because this helps mr. Zeagle and mr. Mares and mr. Scubapro put dinner on the table. The cost of providing warranty coverage is averaged(oversimplified) and added to the cost of the product. If Joe Schmoe with a gorilla grip is working on his reg or if Jack Schmoe decides that vasaline is cheaper than silicone these occurances will drive up the costs. Yes, yes, you and I both know that the warranty does not cover these guys, but companies are often faced with situations that mean that these Schmoes do get covered. I'm not sure if I am explaining myself well or completely. The point I am trying to make is that (in general on average) the policies currently in place are both in the best interest of the consumer, the retailer and the manufacturer. We all benefit from this policy on different levels.

 

[Caston]

The main reason I wanted to do it myself was I know what kind of work I do. I have no idea if the guy that services my reg is having a bad day or is just so used to doing it he/she overlooks something because it's not always that important of a part. That is why I brought it up to begin with.
It seems if the average Joe Shmoe is able to reload his/her own bullets for hunting or work on their own cars, I just don't see when a company would be liable.
I am still missing your point on how it would be bad for the company. I know several divers that look for companies that have easy access to parts so they can service their own. I figured if a name brand company like Zeagle, or whoever, would want to be the first to make it easier to the DIY diver.
Anyway, all that being said, I'm sure one day someone will go for the idea and the rest of the companies will follow.
Happy diving.

 

[Kim]

Scott - just a thought. I am not saying that your policy is wrong but......

I live in Japan and I have NO idea if you have any kind of representation here. It certainly would be extremely difficult for me to get any of your products serviced - and the costs in transportation alone would make it prohibitive. For these reasons - and ONLY these reasons - it means that when I come to purchasing things I can't even consider Zeagle products. I have to choose stuff that I can get parts for or that have representation locally.
As far as liabilty goes - I would have thought that unless it was due to a design or factory defect it wouldn't really come into play. I mean to say - how many cars are involved in accidents vs how many times a manufacturer gets sued?

Like I said - I'm not getting at you - I'm pointing out my reality. (and probably that of a great many other people around the world!)

Now if Zeagle paid all costs for shipping etc for servicing.......that'd be a different matter!

 

[redacted]

Critics need to look at the liability. This is life support equipment, one poorly seated oring could cause some serious problems. I'm not even talking about a wrong oring, but a poorly seated oring. The same thing goes with your car, high end mountain bikes with sophisticated suspension systems, computers etc. If you work on them yourself, often times the warranty is voided. Think from the manufacturers perspective. Zeagle and other companies (one can assume) want to offer the best product for the best price. They also want to throw in value added services such as lifetime replacement parts for free (at least some do). They also want to promote the shops that sell the equipment, because this helps mr. Zeagle and mr. Mares and mr. Scubapro put dinner on the table. The cost of providing warranty coverage is averaged(oversimplified) and added to the cost of the product. If Joe Schmoe with a gorilla grip is working on his reg or if Jack Schmoe decides that vasaline is cheaper than silicone these occurances will drive up the costs. Yes, yes, you and I both know that the warranty does not cover these guys, but companies are often faced with situations that mean that these Schmoes do get covered. I'm not sure if I am explaining myself well or completely. The point I am trying to make is that (in general on average) the policies currently in place are both in the best interest of the consumer, the retailer and the manufacturer. We all benefit from this policy on different levels.

HORSE HOCKEY

But just what I would expect from a dive gear monger thinking he is protecting his turf. We do not need some gear manufacturer and his pawns "protecting" us from our own stupidity at THEIR PROFIT. While there are a few things that can be done in service that will let a reg appear OK on the surface and become a problem U/W, they are very few and still more likely to reveal themselves at the surface under maximum pressure. It would take real talent and effort to install an o-ring incorrectly and not have it show up until you are underwater. Each time you play that card, you fool less folks.

 

[kevink]

I work for a shop and I am still in the DIY camp. If you have the tools, and the guages to check final performance, get off of our back, sell us the damn kits. Don't give me the argument that under pressure you can never know what happens because a final check off in your LDS is not done with any more than 1 atm of ambient pressure on the breathing circuit.

Scott what is your monthly warranty cost for regulators? I don't need a dollar value, just express it as a % of the value of the fleet of regs you have in service. If it is more than .25% I would be shocked. If the free lifetime replacement parts really add to the cost of a reg, offer to sell me a Flathead without this option. Will it be $100 less? I don't think so.

I have to feel for Kim. I spent more than a year in Palau. No one rep'd Sherwood and I needed a replacement part. Not wanting to mail a $100 reg back to the states, someone with a brain was nice enough to mail me the part, and it wasn't anyone from Sherwood, despite my pleadings with them.

One of my three regs is a Scubapro. Since we don't rep. them I have to go hog trade with another shop so that I can get the repair kits to have it serviced. Luckily the repair tech there has a brain and just sells me the kits.

My day job is designing regulators used in anethesia and hospital suction systems. I don't recall ever going to factory sponsored training and getting a wall plaque, and I work on this stuff everyday. You think SCUBA is life support, you gotta play with our toys.

Sell the service manual for a decent profit, and walk through the required tools and performance specs. There should also be a disclaimer in there about the inherrent risks of improper service.

 

[crpntr133]

I don't see how Zeagle could be held responsible but I would guess a good lawer would know more about that than I.

Tom

Kinda like the woman that sued McDonalds because SHE spilled the hot coffee in her lap. In this sue happy world, someone will get $$ out of it yet.

I do have a problem with the fee that is charged for an anual but I guess it is like a car, if you want to play you're going to pay.

 

[ScottZeagle]

Kim, I believe that Zeagle regs will be sold in Japan by the end of 2005.

I understand all of your points, believe me. However, like I said before, there are a lot more legal questions that need to be answered before any decision can be made.

You can call this a Zeagle problem if you would like, but I think it is pretty much an industry wide standard not to sell service kits direct. If we lose a few reg sales due to it, well, that is the price of doing business, I suppose...

Can you tell me which companies ARE selling parts directly to consumers? Maybe they know something that we don't - or maybe they just don't have as much to lose...it would be interesting to find out.

Scott