Regulator Free Flow Problem

[soamelt]

I'm not sure if this should be posted here or in the Zeagle forum, but i figure it's more of a general reg issue.

In the last week, I've had my reg free flow twice, my setup is as follows -

Zeagle 50 ZXD reg with yoke, Mares Brigade/Viper octo, HP 3442 tank thermo pro valve - using yoke.

Last Sat, on my second dive, my tank was filled to about 3700 PSI. My octo free flowed while I tried to breathe off of it during the pre-dive check. I shut off my tank, turned it back on, no free flow (but did not breathe off of it again). Then tried to inflate my BCD, also pre-dive and my octo starting free flowing again. The octo eventually stopped free flowing at about 3400 PSI. No problems after that.

Wednesday, single dive tank filled to about 3500 PSI, LDS changed sensitivity on octo (made less air come out when purged or breathed through), no problems on dive.

Today - tank was filled to 4300 PSI (shop error, was very surprised, but figured hey I was diving about a 120 today). Pre-dive, breathed from primary 2nd stage, octo started free flowing and I also noticed that my primary 2nd stage had a light hiss coming out of it as well. Eventually stopped around 3400 PSI again. No problems after that.

Is there a problem with my reg, or is it that the yoke on my 1st stage which says 232 bar (around 3400 PSI) can't handle the pressure. Would converting to DIN fix it or is there another problem? Having my tanks slightly overfilled to around 3600 is pretty common (the 4300 is not), will that couple hundred extra PSI be a problem?

I know I posted in the Zeagle forum about my concerns about having an HP tank and the yoke rated at 232 bar to which the replies were more or less, "don't worry about it".

Sorry for the long read, just trying to lay out all of what to me seems like the pertinent information. Thanks.

Greg

 

[Scuba Crab]

Sounds like a bad high presure seat in the first stage and or an adjustment there of? Adjusting the cracking presure of the second stage might help? (needs to be profesionaly diognosed and repaired)

I would recomend taking it in for service and or ajustments! as for a shop would have the proper tools to diognose and fix the problem.

 

[Slonda828]

I'm not sure if this should be posted here or in the Zeagle forum, but i figure it's more of a general reg issue.

In the last week, I've had my reg free flow twice, my setup is as follows -

Zeagle 50 ZXD reg with yoke, Mares Brigade/Viper octo, HP 3442 tank thermo pro valve - using yoke.

Last Sat, on my second dive, my tank was filled to about 3700 PSI. My octo free flowed while I tried to breathe off of it during the pre-dive check. I shut off my tank, turned it back on, no free flow (but did not breathe off of it again). Then tried to inflate my BCD, also pre-dive and my octo starting free flowing again. The octo eventually stopped free flowing at about 3400 PSI. No problems after that.

Wednesday, single dive tank filled to about 3500 PSI, LDS changed sensitivity on octo (made less air come out when purged or breathed through), no problems on dive.

Today - tank was filled to 4300 PSI (shop error, was very surprised, but figured hey I was diving about a 120 today). Pre-dive, breathed from primary 2nd stage, octo started free flowing and I also noticed that my primary 2nd stage had a light hiss coming out of it as well. Eventually stopped around 3400 PSI again. No problems after that.

Is there a problem with my reg, or is it that the yoke on my 1st stage which says 232 bar (around 3400 PSI) can't handle the pressure. Would converting to DIN fix it or is there another problem? Having my tanks slightly overfilled to around 3600 is pretty common (the 4300 is not), will that couple hundred extra PSI be a problem?

I know I posted in the Zeagle forum about my concerns about having an HP tank and the yoke rated at 232 bar to which the replies were more or less, "don't worry about it".

Sorry for the long read, just trying to lay out all of what to me seems like the pertinent information. Thanks.

Greg

I've seen where even a balanced regulator will creep if the service pressure on the tank is just too darn high. 4300 psi is a LOT of pressure. It could have caused the high pressure seat to develop what is referred to as creep (think air leaking past the first stage) because of how high the pressure is coming from the tank. Since both of your second stages were hissing, this leads me to believe (think Occam's razor here) that the increased pressure probably caused your first stage to creep, which would then force open the downstream low pressure seats on your second stages, causing them to hiss. You also mentioned that it stopped once service pressure dropped to normal. I would purchase an intermediate pressure (IP) checker off the web. It plugs into your BC low pressure hose. Check your pressure before your next dives. It should "lock up" or rise to the factory spec, then stop without creeping, or inching higher. If that checks out, you should be aces.

 

[halocline]

Is your zeagle a diaphragm reg? I bet it is, and if so, then high supply pressure should result in lower IP, as the supply pressure would tend to close the orifice/seat valve. But it does sound like IP creep, so maybe the seat just can't handle that kind of pressure differential without leaking a little.

BTW, the mares brigade octo is the same as the old Dacor viper octo, which I once had and hated. It was very susceptible to freeflow from slightly elevated IP. Personally, I think you'd save yourself some hassle if you ditched it altogether and bought a decent zeagle 2nd stage to use as an octo.

 

[soamelt]

Thanks for all the quick replies. So what I gather is that it's a problem with my high pressure seat. Is that easily fixable? The reg is just over a year old with about 30 o so dives on it, very well cared for. I also am assuming that the Zeagle 2nd stage can handle the creep or change in the IP better than then my crappy octo which is why it's more noticable on the octo?

 

[Slonda828]

Thanks for all the quick replies. So what I gather is that it's a problem with my high pressure seat. Is that easily fixable? The reg is just over a year old with about 30 o so dives on it, very well cared for. I also am assuming that the Zeagle 2nd stage can handle the creep or change in the IP better than then my crappy octo which is why it's more noticable on the octo?

There's probably nothing wrong at all. If you buy the gauge, like I mentioned above, or take it to a tech if you are uncomfortable doing that, you can chek IP lockup. If it locks up, it's fine. Everything is made within a tolerance range. There may be an allowable amount of gap that keep 3500 PSI of air out, but maybe it cannot keep out 4300 PSI. I also have to agree with Matt, those re-badged Dacor octos suck. Running it on a really high pressure once or twice is most likely not going to kill the seat. Heck, I used to used a balanced diaphragm regulator as my shop regulator to blow things off with compressed air and fill my tires. I had IP set to almost 200 on that, it has worked fine for over a year and I never rebuilt it.

 

[soamelt]

I do plan on evetually replacing the octo with the Zeagle Envoy octo. I bought a decent reg/guage, but skimped out on the octo. I wish I just spent the extra $50 then to get it.

On another note, I'm selling a one year old Mares Brigade octo if anyone is interested. . PM me for details.

 

[soamelt]

The whole creep/high pressure seat thing has made me think of a few other questions here. Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, just trying to understand. Are the high pressure seats typically rated at a certain PSI? I would think they would be and it would be well beyond that of a HP tank to allow some leeway with over fills, heating, etc. Ifnyhere is actually creep, wouldn't there be a problem with my 1st stage? I understand my crappy octo may not be able to handle more IP (although my Zeagle 2nd stage had some hissing also, albiet light).

Using that logic, to me it would seem the problem is not my crappy octo, but that the 1st high pressure seat can't handle he pressure. I'll agree that 4300 PSI is high, but I would still think it should be able to handle that. It should certainly be able to handle anything below 4000 PSI.

 

[tfsails]

If you have an IP gauge, install it on the LPI hose, put the reg on a tank, turn the air on, and see what the IP is. It should be between 125 and 145psi. Let it sit for ten minutes while it's pressurized. Don't breathe off it or anything. When you go back to it, the IP should be the same as it was when you left the reg. If it's higher, you have IP creep. If it's a pound or two lower, it's no big deal.

I once had a Zeagle first stage on which the IP crept about 15 psi in 10 minutes. Turned out to be a manufacturing defect in the body, and Zeagle replaced it under warranty, no questions asked.

If you have IP creep you need to get the first stage serviced. It's not supposed to creep.

The Mares/Dacor octo is a decent octo. It's a tad tempermental to adjust, but otherwise it's ok. It can deliver a LOT of air.

 

[soamelt]

I got my reg on an IP gauge today and it looks like there is a problem with the HP seat. It started off at 155 PSI, then went down to 150, hung there. There major fluctuations when purged (don't know if it should do that ar not). Having it rebuilt now.

I'm kind of surprised I'm having such a major problem on 13 month old reg with less than 40 dives on it. One of the reasons I bought a Zeagle was because it thought they were supposed to be very well made and durable.

Thanks for all the help an suggestions.