So True :lol:mattboy:
And you still wouldn't have an answer
Regular Octo or Power Inflator/Octo Integrated??
- Thread starter CrackedConch
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And you still wouldn't have an answer
Just my opinion here ...but the word "streamlining" as it relates to this topic is more of a marketing term than any true functional advantage. I didn't change to the AirSource to become any more streamlined in the water.
One less hose is just that ...one less hose. I am no more "hydrodynamic" with my low pressure integrated second stage than I was with my original octo set-up. I just like it more and it works well for my wife and me.
'Slogger
One less hose is just that ...one less hose. I am no more "hydrodynamic" with my low pressure integrated second stage than I was with my original octo set-up. I just like it more and it works well for my wife and me.
'Slogger
bperrybap
Contributor
Footslogger:
So true. Much more energy is lost and drag created
due to improper trim and weighting than could ever be gained
by any combination of octo or octo-inflator.
--- bill
Vicente:
==========================================
Exactly ...the PRODUCT LITERATURE !!
One less hose ...that's the main reason. Might just come with age or diving style but the simpler the better when it comes to basic recreational diving (my opinion)
As often as we have actually used/needed them they have more than served our needs. We are both familiar with them and the trade-offs involved in using them.
'Slogger
ChrisA
Contributor
What really matters is that with the combo inflator/octo thinng an out of air diver would take the reg out of your mouth and you would breath off the combo inflator. You both would then head up to the surface, slowly at 30 feet/minute. You would need to vent air out of the BC and to do that you would need to take the combo inflator out of your mouth and hold it up, or maybe you have some other dump valve, but remember you will have one less hand while sharing air.
So work through the air sharring scenario in detail so you know if you like that or not be sure to work out which hand is used for what and how you can dump air from the BC. Then work it out for the octo. you choose.
As an aside, last weekend I was in a class (I'll let you guess which class) I was just swimming around with buddy. Instructor told us to "just burn off the air if we wanted after an exercise) so we were just down around 35 or 40 feet. and an instructor rushes up to me from the rare (where I can't see) and with no regulator in view eyes wide and rips the primary reg out of my mouth with enough force that the rubber mouth piece comes off and is lost. OK what now? The reg is broken? The out of air diver has no reg that I can see. So we "buddy breath" using my octo. We take two breaths then pass the reg, 2 breath then pas the reg. All the way up to the surface.
When we get to the surface I'm laughing because he really fooled me for a second I had absolutly no idea he was going to pull this on me and thought he was really out of air. Only after I recognised who the OOA diver was after starting to buddy breath did I figure it out. I fixed the reg from my spares kit later, no big deal.
OK so one more thing to think about. a real OOA diver will not be so gentle when he grabs your primary reg. He will pull way hard. Can you buddy breath with an combo inflator? I don't know. Try it and find out.
So work through the air sharring scenario in detail so you know if you like that or not be sure to work out which hand is used for what and how you can dump air from the BC. Then work it out for the octo. you choose.
As an aside, last weekend I was in a class (I'll let you guess which class) I was just swimming around with buddy. Instructor told us to "just burn off the air if we wanted after an exercise) so we were just down around 35 or 40 feet. and an instructor rushes up to me from the rare (where I can't see) and with no regulator in view eyes wide and rips the primary reg out of my mouth with enough force that the rubber mouth piece comes off and is lost. OK what now? The reg is broken? The out of air diver has no reg that I can see. So we "buddy breath" using my octo. We take two breaths then pass the reg, 2 breath then pas the reg. All the way up to the surface.
When we get to the surface I'm laughing because he really fooled me for a second I had absolutly no idea he was going to pull this on me and thought he was really out of air. Only after I recognised who the OOA diver was after starting to buddy breath did I figure it out. I fixed the reg from my spares kit later, no big deal.
OK so one more thing to think about. a real OOA diver will not be so gentle when he grabs your primary reg. He will pull way hard. Can you buddy breath with an combo inflator? I don't know. Try it and find out.
Footslogger:
I toyed around with the idea of building a setup with combined inflator/regulator and a wireless wrist-computer to have as few hoses as possible. Of course that was back in the 90's when money came a lot easier, couldn't pull that off now. Not entirely hostile to the idea as CoolTech seems to think, just a skeptic.
=========================================Vicente:
I was too. I'm not exactly what you would call "New" to diving and I'm somewhat set in my ways. But for the $200 or so investment it seemed worth a try. We tried it and liked it ...as the saying goes.
Still have the octo's and could switch back in a flash if necessary.
'Slogger
In regard to ChrisA scenario, It's good to be paranoid and assume that 2 things might go wrong IMHO.
Let me give a tangentially-related example. A buddy and I were cavern-diving, and the reel got jammed on the way out. When things get a bit high on task-loading, are on your way out and eying the SPG and dealing with flow and a jammed reel, some additional mistake can easily happen. In his case it was bumping his buckle and dropping the weight belt, so now he's pinned against the ceiling. Now we've got 2 problems and it took a worrying long time to untangle things. See what I mean?
If you predicate your assumptions on I always do low-current 30-foot dives and a single failure is not the end of the world.... well you are leaning to an attitude that says a thin safety margin with best equipment is okay. Just think about it when building scenarios. What if your buddy-breathing off a 2nd in some nice safe pool? Everything is fine right? But add in the 2nd problem that your buddy has a good shot of adrenaline and breathing hard. If that reg is low-performance you have a PROBLEM. So make sure if you are shopping one of these widgets that it's got good performance. I am not just picking on integrated people here, I've seen plenty of people with backup 2nds that are these tiny things with poor performance that I think are a bad idea.
One obvious one I could see happening is you get distracted with the whole situation at hand, you are ascending and breathing off your integrated reg. But as ChrisA points out you may have to take the thing out of your mouth to vent the BCD if you don't a pull dump on the shoulder. Do you do this smoothly? Do you remember to blow bubbles without a regulator in your mouth to avoid lung expansion injury? People generally train for OW cert with a "standard" setup if you switch to integrated you'd better think about how this could change your failure scenarios and procedures in OOA emergencies, not just add it and enjoy the benefits.
The first diving injury I witnessed in 97 was an under-weighted diver who was kicking down at the safety stop. It took me a minute to realize why he was head-down and kicking and it was too late to stop what happened next. His underweighting inconvenience became a diving injury when while dealing with his additional task-loading he forgot to kick for a moment while doing something and thus bobbed to the surface, and also held his breath. This led to a minor lung expansion injury, subcutaneous emphysema technically, certainly not the end of the world but my first example of how one problem can quickly lead to a 2nd one. He only had the "rice krispies" under the skin of the neck, sit out diving, and a hospital checkout.
I don't go much further with my paranoia than most people, I mean it's not like I'm diving Y-valve and double-regs on a 60-foot dive or anything. But I try to play out all the what-if's I can and account for them.
Let me give a tangentially-related example. A buddy and I were cavern-diving, and the reel got jammed on the way out. When things get a bit high on task-loading, are on your way out and eying the SPG and dealing with flow and a jammed reel, some additional mistake can easily happen. In his case it was bumping his buckle and dropping the weight belt, so now he's pinned against the ceiling. Now we've got 2 problems and it took a worrying long time to untangle things. See what I mean?
If you predicate your assumptions on I always do low-current 30-foot dives and a single failure is not the end of the world.... well you are leaning to an attitude that says a thin safety margin with best equipment is okay. Just think about it when building scenarios. What if your buddy-breathing off a 2nd in some nice safe pool? Everything is fine right? But add in the 2nd problem that your buddy has a good shot of adrenaline and breathing hard. If that reg is low-performance you have a PROBLEM. So make sure if you are shopping one of these widgets that it's got good performance. I am not just picking on integrated people here, I've seen plenty of people with backup 2nds that are these tiny things with poor performance that I think are a bad idea.
One obvious one I could see happening is you get distracted with the whole situation at hand, you are ascending and breathing off your integrated reg. But as ChrisA points out you may have to take the thing out of your mouth to vent the BCD if you don't a pull dump on the shoulder. Do you do this smoothly? Do you remember to blow bubbles without a regulator in your mouth to avoid lung expansion injury? People generally train for OW cert with a "standard" setup if you switch to integrated you'd better think about how this could change your failure scenarios and procedures in OOA emergencies, not just add it and enjoy the benefits.
The first diving injury I witnessed in 97 was an under-weighted diver who was kicking down at the safety stop. It took me a minute to realize why he was head-down and kicking and it was too late to stop what happened next. His underweighting inconvenience became a diving injury when while dealing with his additional task-loading he forgot to kick for a moment while doing something and thus bobbed to the surface, and also held his breath. This led to a minor lung expansion injury, subcutaneous emphysema technically, certainly not the end of the world but my first example of how one problem can quickly lead to a 2nd one. He only had the "rice krispies" under the skin of the neck, sit out diving, and a hospital checkout.
I don't go much further with my paranoia than most people, I mean it's not like I'm diving Y-valve and double-regs on a 60-foot dive or anything. But I try to play out all the what-if's I can and account for them.
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