Regular Octo or Power Inflator/Octo Integrated??

[BKP]

I echo CoolTech's sentiments. I have an SS1 integrated, and love it.

If someone is worried about a very rare contingency that would render an integrated unusable (in exchange for the convenience an integrated offers *all* the time), then considering all the *other* contingencies possible in diving... well.... there's always shuffleboard...

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

3 times I can think of in the last 10 years.

I am YMCA Master Diver, 300+ Dives, if we are comparing quals..... I haven't had assorted emergencies happen to me, that have happened to you, this doesn't mean that I automatically discount them as valid concerns. I tried to fill out my profile a while ago it wasn't working. Seems real important to you so maybe I'll do it. I suppose I could lie and say I was a Grand-Master Intstructor-Instructor if that would impress you more than my ideas.

Talk about defensive. Read the bit you quoted from me again. Concerns were not discounted, and I didn't list any assorted emergencies.

The profile is important to almost everyone on the board for experiences. Again, you seem defensive. My post displayed different experiences from yours, not a condescending attitude.

With the attitude you are displaying for someone posting different experiences than yours, I wouldn't care if you invented Scuba, I'm not impressed. Your ideas are different from mine, and I posted the differences. Egos are not conducive to productive back and forth discussion.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

My point was, there are plenty of ways of streamlining what most consider a "standard" setup without going air-integrated. Most people don't apply this in terms of thinking carefully and fiddling with the setup, they whip out the MasterCard and buy the latest whizzo rig at the shop that claims to solve all problems.

Again, I state that there was a time when the "Standard" did not include an octo. Times change and standards change with them.

And yes, I had this sort of thing happen a few times in the Keys. My 2nd dive trip in 97 another diver had an uncontrolled ascent, that motivated me to do Rescue Diver and all associated training. Also once on the Duane a father-son team where the father ran out of air, was separated from his son, bolted for the surface and was rescuscitated on the boat. Now that I think about I've had to assist random divers with assorted problems a half-dozen times, the Duane is about the worst for high-current, deep, and out-of-air situations. Last month I surfaced into the middle of a father-son incident at Point Lobos. Perhaps I've just been unluckier than youI digress. Because a particular scenario hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it's impossible.

It appears that you have been unluckier than I, but did each of these divers yank your primary out of your mouth as you stated. Yes, I have been in a number of emergency situations. And, no... I have never had my reg yanked from my mouth. This was what the quote was about.

Again, I ask you to read my quote. I state very clearly that it could happen, just hasn't ever happened to me. And, what I would do if it someone did yank my reg out of my mouth.

 

[Vicente]

Again, I state that there was a time when the "Standard" did not include an octo. Times change and standards change with them.

A backup 2nd is a safety consideration. There are people still out there diving without a backup 2nd stage though.

I believe there is no giant safety difference between a standard 2nd and your air-integrated. However, I see no concrete overwhelming advantages in it, that cannot be gained by simply streamlining the regulator setup and using a full-sized 2nd. My concern with the additional possible failure mode induced by combining 2 functions is unlikely to be instantly life-threatening but it would be something that if it happened to some n00b I was shepherding for some reason, it would result in a thumbs-up. My chica had one of those setups on a Zeagle, she got rid of it. It wasn't any lighter. It wasn't actually any sleeker than my rig, what was the advantage of it? Quite frankly neither of us could see any reason to recommend it. It was just a reasonably priced used starter rig that she later replaced.

I am not arguing "if you use this you will die!"

It rather reminds me of the argument about hosed-SPG versus wireless air-integrated computer. Does it make a nits worth of difference in your diving performance? I would say not at all. A properly routed hosed SPG should present no additional drag.

 

[Vicente]

Talk about defensive.

Reading hostility and defensiveness where none exists. This is the Internet dude, a place where someone's intent and emotions are impossible to read. After many years of Usenet experience since it's birth, and now forums, I don't assume hostile emotions on the part of others anymore. Perhaps it would help you if I put smileys all over the place. It's just the internet, chill out. Please assume "wryly amused" or "friendly needling" in absence of other information.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Reading hostility and defensiveness where none exists. This is the Internet baby. After many years of Usenet experience since it's birth, and now forums, I don't assume hostile emotions on the part of others anymore. Perhaps it would help you if I put smileys all over the place. It's just the internet, chill out.

...300+ Dives, if we are comparing quals.....

...this doesn't mean that I automatically discount them as valid concerns.

...Seems real important to you so maybe I'll do it...

I suppose I could lie and say I was a Secret Grand-Master Level-3 Instructor-Instructor if that would impress you more than my ideas

they whip out the MasterCard and buy the latest whizzo rig at the shop that claims to solve all problems

Perhaps I've just been unluckier than you. I digress. Because a particular scenario hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it's impossible

I don't know where anyone would read hostility and defensiveness either.

 

[Vicente]

Again, I ask you to read my quote. I state very clearly that it could happen, just hasn't ever happened to me. And, what I would do if it someone did yank my reg out of my mouth.

My point was, I had a functional backup 2nd, that is streamlined and easily accessible. I don't see the claimed advantages of air-integrated unit. I achieve the same results simply by thinking about my setup and configuring it appropriately. Perhaps I did not express this in the best way, but that is what I intended to get across. A sleek and simple configuration that achieves the same goals is entirely do-able with a few minutes thought. And you've got a full-sized backup that breathes just like the pimary. I feel like I'd have rather better luck getting a quick-fix on my full-sized 2nds in some random shop, than an integrated. They sure have been around a long time, but AFAIK are not becoming common or standard, perhaps there is a reason for that. I was on 3 different dive boats last week, don't recall seeing any air-integrated units. 1 was a cattleboat for tourists and 1 was local lobster-folk with experience back to horse-collar days. Good luck with that windmill.

 

[Vicente]

I don't know where anyone would read hostility and defensiveness either.

Yawn, glad you are amused.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Yawn, glad you are amused.

You're now slipping into "Troll", and off topic. I am out of here.

 

[Vicente]

You're now slipping into "Troll", and off topic. I am out of here.

You seem to be putting a lot of work into finding fault here. Maybe I'm too lazy and good-natured for that, even if it doesn't always come across into text. If I have offended you somehow that was not my intent. My intent was not at all to get in a back-and-forth with you, but it seemed to escalate for some reason. C'est la vie.

Good day to you citizen.

The original poster seems awfully quiet.