Lost Yooper
Guest
I couldn't agree with you more Pete. I don't let anyone touch my stuff, and I don't touch anyone elses stuff (no worries Blacknet)
.
Mike
.Mike
Regs & Nitrox
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blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
IG, I am not trying to make fun of you or belittle but you should read 1330 standards. There is a list of 'exclusions' i.e. things that you do NOT need to clean. It's commonly stated you need to o2 clean a) your mask, b) your dry suit, c) your bc, and the like. Like rainreg stated there's alot of mis-information out there.
I did recently read one interesting story about a guy who supposingly had an o2 clean regulator and there was a fire, the analysis reported the cause as being the 1st stage (titanium)
Ed
IG, I am not trying to make fun of you or belittle but you should read 1330 standards. There is a list of 'exclusions' i.e. things that you do NOT need to clean. It's commonly stated you need to o2 clean a) your mask, b) your dry suit, c) your bc, and the like. Like rainreg stated there's alot of mis-information out there.
I did recently read one interesting story about a guy who supposingly had an o2 clean regulator and there was a fire, the analysis reported the cause as being the 1st stage (titanium)
Ed
Lost Yooper
Guest
ID, I'm glad you concur with some of what I said, but I suspect we'll be in the minority again.
I, too, am very interested in all the studies and stuff out there, but I have to weigh the practical/reality view point as well.
Sure didn't take long to wake some of ya up here.
Take care.
Mike
I, too, am very interested in all the studies and stuff out there, but I have to weigh the practical/reality view point as well. Sure didn't take long to wake some of ya up here.
Take care.
Mike
I hope this was a typo... and you meant they DIDN'T need O2 cleaning...
blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
ND, what I often hear is people stating that you DO need to o2 clean those items. Then I read 1330 (well still reading it) and I found the correct answer and these people are just blowing the situation up to make it seem worse than it is.
Ed
ND, what I often hear is people stating that you DO need to o2 clean those items. Then I read 1330 (well still reading it) and I found the correct answer and these people are just blowing the situation up to make it seem worse than it is.
Ed
Between the loquacious ID, LY and me;
We feel that a %25 deck for O2 cleaning is just plain ludicrous. We also feel that the %40 figure is more than adequate and that its safety has been proven by the numerous NitrOx divers that have had NO INCIDENTS. AND...that the PTBs that promote this obscenely low figure probably have some other agenda than just our safety. In addition, they deserve a good wedgie, and should be the first against the walls during the coming revolution. Welcome to reality... :tease:
We feel that a %25 deck for O2 cleaning is just plain ludicrous. We also feel that the %40 figure is more than adequate and that its safety has been proven by the numerous NitrOx divers that have had NO INCIDENTS. AND...that the PTBs that promote this obscenely low figure probably have some other agenda than just our safety. In addition, they deserve a good wedgie, and should be the first against the walls during the coming revolution. Welcome to reality... :tease:
blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
Is that NONE at all or NONE that you know of? Big difference.
Ed
Is that NONE at all or NONE that you know of? Big difference.
Ed
blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
OK this came from the NASA archives (to discredit the nasa statment of 40%)
In a private email with one of the four NASA testers about the NASA tests, Elliot Forsyth wrote,
"We recommended cleaning these equipment even after the tests because we know that many of the materials used in the reg are considered flammable, even in a 50% O2 mix. They can be ignited in a variety of ways, only one of which we tested in the paper you read ( adiabatic compression heating tests )and in a highly controlled test environment. The contamininants were also from a very controlled swimming-pool environment of the NASA NBL, perhaps different than a diver's gear bag. Further, we have seen fires occur in regulators by other ignition mechanisms in increased O2 environments. In fact, in a different study, to be published this fall, we ignited very small amounts of hydrocarbon oil in 50% O2 down to pressures of 500 psi. Finally, we promote safety, especially in components whe! re personnel exposure is unavoidable."
"...the fact of the matter is that the 40-percent oxygen limit for cleaning is not founded on any scientific data, i.e. it's not like materials support combustion at 41% O2 and not at 39%. In fact, many materials that are not flammable in air become flammable between 21-40% oxygen. We have huge databases full of materials flammability data to support this. In my opinion it's unfortunate that the diving industry has embraced this rule to govern ALL nitrox systems as I believe that it's very difficult to apply this rule to all systems and I fear the number of accidental fires will continue to increase as more people dive nitrox. There really is no substitute for initial cleaning and good practices to maintain cleanliness of these systems."
BTW i'm told that noaa follows the recomendations of cga (and cga states 23.5%)
Ed
OK this came from the NASA archives (to discredit the nasa statment of 40%)
In a private email with one of the four NASA testers about the NASA tests, Elliot Forsyth wrote,
"We recommended cleaning these equipment even after the tests because we know that many of the materials used in the reg are considered flammable, even in a 50% O2 mix. They can be ignited in a variety of ways, only one of which we tested in the paper you read ( adiabatic compression heating tests )and in a highly controlled test environment. The contamininants were also from a very controlled swimming-pool environment of the NASA NBL, perhaps different than a diver's gear bag. Further, we have seen fires occur in regulators by other ignition mechanisms in increased O2 environments. In fact, in a different study, to be published this fall, we ignited very small amounts of hydrocarbon oil in 50% O2 down to pressures of 500 psi. Finally, we promote safety, especially in components whe! re personnel exposure is unavoidable."
"...the fact of the matter is that the 40-percent oxygen limit for cleaning is not founded on any scientific data, i.e. it's not like materials support combustion at 41% O2 and not at 39%. In fact, many materials that are not flammable in air become flammable between 21-40% oxygen. We have huge databases full of materials flammability data to support this. In my opinion it's unfortunate that the diving industry has embraced this rule to govern ALL nitrox systems as I believe that it's very difficult to apply this rule to all systems and I fear the number of accidental fires will continue to increase as more people dive nitrox. There really is no substitute for initial cleaning and good practices to maintain cleanliness of these systems."
BTW i'm told that noaa follows the recomendations of cga (and cga states 23.5%)
Ed
Iguana Don
Guest
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I can't say none because that is finite. None reported, how's that? Would be interested in these cases of combustion. Because as you well know, anything that happens in the scuba community spreads like wild fire, no pun intended and everybody knows about it before they even get to the hospital. Show me your facts and studies and cases before we can discuss this. You can run computer models day and night to achieve the desired results. But "real world" states different.
Also in PADI's "Enriched Air Diver" manual on page 9 Item #1 it states, and I quote:
"Most scuba regulators, BCDs, SPGs an alternate air sources may be use with enriched air blends that have up to 40% oxygen, after making any modifications required by the manufacturer. Based on the standards and field experierence of NOAA, the U.S.Navy, OSHA and others, some in the dive community believe that standard air equipment can be used with blends up to 40% oxygen without modification. Though this practice appears to have anb excellent field record, you should still follow manufacturer recommendations."
I am not trying to blast you on this, but to say that anything other than air, and that is basically what they are saying, needs to be O2 cleaned is a little far fetched.
Another thing, if you are gonna have to clean your regs, why wouldn't you have to clean your BC, drysuit, SPG or anything else that comes in contact with +25% nitrox. This theory just doesn't wash IMHO. If it was that big of a danger, I damn sure wouldn't want a fire in my drysuit with me in it.
Also in PADI's "Enriched Air Diver" manual on page 9 Item #1 it states, and I quote:
"Most scuba regulators, BCDs, SPGs an alternate air sources may be use with enriched air blends that have up to 40% oxygen, after making any modifications required by the manufacturer. Based on the standards and field experierence of NOAA, the U.S.Navy, OSHA and others, some in the dive community believe that standard air equipment can be used with blends up to 40% oxygen without modification. Though this practice appears to have anb excellent field record, you should still follow manufacturer recommendations."
I am not trying to blast you on this, but to say that anything other than air, and that is basically what they are saying, needs to be O2 cleaned is a little far fetched.
Another thing, if you are gonna have to clean your regs, why wouldn't you have to clean your BC, drysuit, SPG or anything else that comes in contact with +25% nitrox. This theory just doesn't wash IMHO. If it was that big of a danger, I damn sure wouldn't want a fire in my drysuit with me in it.
blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
It's all explained in 1330, AND I might add it's very clear as to what to/not to o2 clean.
Ed
It's all explained in 1330, AND I might add it's very clear as to what to/not to o2 clean.
Ed
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