I'm trying to find a source for a long second stage hose to use cleaning my Dad's boat hull. I need around 20'. I've seen a hull cleaner using one, but didn't have a chance to ask. The idea is to leave my tank on the dock and scrub, scrub away! Thanks, ...N
Reeeeeeally long second stage hose?
- Thread starter rpnick
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First thing that comes to mind is that dropping down to 20 feet will make the reg breathe pretty hard unless you crank the IP on the first stage.
The second thing is safety. You can't monitor your gas, so if the first stage starts leaking you won't know it til you have no gas.. try to surface, discover your foot is entangled in some loose dock line, and you're a goner. This is just one of dozens of scenarios that could get you killed doing this.
The second thing is safety. You can't monitor your gas, so if the first stage starts leaking you won't know it til you have no gas.. try to surface, discover your foot is entangled in some loose dock line, and you're a goner. This is just one of dozens of scenarios that could get you killed doing this.
he makes a good point... but if you still looking to be nuts... goto your local dive shop... have them order one from trident.. they can and will make u one any length if they say they cant... it just they are being lazy 
SeaJay
Contributor
The rig is called a "hookah" rig, and it's not exactly accurate to say that it's just a really long second stage hose. It's a whole dive system.
Try http://www.browniedive.com
Simply hooking a long hose to a second stage and leaving the bottle and all up topside wouldn't be recommended for the reasons that jonnythan mentions - the first stage on your scuba tank really needs to be submerged in order to properly deliver the right pressure to your second stage. If you leave it on the tank topside, it's not really going to work properly.
Then, like jonnythan mentioned, you can't watch your pressure...
Are you SCUBA certified, or just want your boat cleaned? I'm at $2.09 a foot...
Try http://www.browniedive.com
Simply hooking a long hose to a second stage and leaving the bottle and all up topside wouldn't be recommended for the reasons that jonnythan mentions - the first stage on your scuba tank really needs to be submerged in order to properly deliver the right pressure to your second stage. If you leave it on the tank topside, it's not really going to work properly.
Then, like jonnythan mentioned, you can't watch your pressure...
Are you SCUBA certified, or just want your boat cleaned? I'm at $2.09 a foot...
rpnick:
your description sounds a bit like a "Hookah" system.
Check out this link
http://www.keeneengineering.com/pamphlets/howhookah.html
it explains a bit about the gear.
There is also another thing called "snuba".
(See here: http://www.snuba.com/equipment.asp) that fits your description.
I've never used either of these things. I just know that they exist. The Hookah system seems safer to me because you'd be less likely to run out of air. In either event you need surface support.
Were you having trouble doing it on scuba?
R..
Yea... for what you're doing... a long hose will work fine. We sell 25, and 50 foot all the time to guys who do pool work. They are working at 10 - 15 foot depths - no problems. If you're cleaning a hull... I seriously doubt it goes down 20 feet. The IP in the reg will work fine with out any adjustment at the depths you will be at... even farther than that...
The problem would be at extreme depth, a 1st stage is going to "feel" the water pressure and adjust it's IP accordingly. For example, if the IP is 145, if you have another 50 psi of water pressure, it will set the IP to 195... But that would be a depth of over 100 feet.
But in your case, you are probably max... what - 5 feet below the surface?? That will be a change in IP of about 2.5 psi.... Won't matter - never notice... will work fine. Those long reg hoses run about 2 bucks a foot...
The problem would be at extreme depth, a 1st stage is going to "feel" the water pressure and adjust it's IP accordingly. For example, if the IP is 145, if you have another 50 psi of water pressure, it will set the IP to 195... But that would be a depth of over 100 feet.
But in your case, you are probably max... what - 5 feet below the surface?? That will be a change in IP of about 2.5 psi.... Won't matter - never notice... will work fine. Those long reg hoses run about 2 bucks a foot...
scubatoys:
I'll second that.. I use surface supplied oxygen (on an industrial cylinder with an adapter) all the time and it breaths fine.. When we set a a bottle to supply more than 2 divers at a time we generally bump the IP up to ~150psi to give us a little extra margin..
The depth issue is not really an issue at all if you use a high performance first stage with a high flow rate and combine it with a balanced second stage. The excess flow capacity of the first stage will make up for the decrease in the difference in IP and ambient pressure and allow the first stage to still deliver adequate air to 60 plus feet and a balanced and/or adjustable second stage will also largely negate the decrease in IP relative to ambient pressure and enable the second stage to deliver a normal breathing effort. Ensuring the IP is set to the upper end of the range (145-150 psi) will give you the best possible air delivery.
If you think about it, at 66' you are adding 2 atmospheres of additional ambient pressure or approx 30 psi. This will reduce the relative IP at the second stage from 145 to 115 psi, but this is only 5 psi below the bottom end of the normal IP range for most regulators and adequate air delivery is not a problem even at that depth.
It is true that with a tank topside, you can't check the tank pressure, but if you use a tender, they can signal you when it is time to come up. Plus, even with a high performance balanced first and second stage, breathing effort will increase on the last several breaths and that effect is only magnified by the relatively large amount of air in the IP section of the reg due to the long hose. So even if the tender falls asleep, you will still get adequate warning that the tank pressure is low.
If you want to get fancy, you can connect two tanks and first stages to the LP hose with a manifold block and can then switch from one tank to the other. This will let the tender change out the empty tank and theoretically, you could stay down forever. This is the same approach used on some boats using O2 deco rigs.
With a hookah system you don't have to worry about running out of air - you just have to worry about the compressor stopping. Whether you use a hookah or a tank, a bailout in the form of a pony bottle is a good idea if you go deeper than you are comfortable making a free ascent. This can just be rigged like a small deco bottle with boltsnaps and clipped to the waist belt securing your really long second stage hose. A horse collar BC also works well in this situation and a 6-19 cu ft pony can be clipped to the waist belt of the BC either in back or in front.
In the last couple years we started using genuine 100' long LP hoses for some of our commercial work because it is more fleaxible in cold water. But to be honest for years we used reinforced vinyl hose from the local hardware store with the appropriate fittings added on each end to make it work with the first and second stage. It is the same hose used in carbnonated beverage applications, will handle the pressure required for scuba diving and is really quite inexpensive. We still use this type of hose combined with a manifold to fill lift bags from the surface in heavy lift operations.
If you think about it, at 66' you are adding 2 atmospheres of additional ambient pressure or approx 30 psi. This will reduce the relative IP at the second stage from 145 to 115 psi, but this is only 5 psi below the bottom end of the normal IP range for most regulators and adequate air delivery is not a problem even at that depth.
It is true that with a tank topside, you can't check the tank pressure, but if you use a tender, they can signal you when it is time to come up. Plus, even with a high performance balanced first and second stage, breathing effort will increase on the last several breaths and that effect is only magnified by the relatively large amount of air in the IP section of the reg due to the long hose. So even if the tender falls asleep, you will still get adequate warning that the tank pressure is low.
If you want to get fancy, you can connect two tanks and first stages to the LP hose with a manifold block and can then switch from one tank to the other. This will let the tender change out the empty tank and theoretically, you could stay down forever. This is the same approach used on some boats using O2 deco rigs.
With a hookah system you don't have to worry about running out of air - you just have to worry about the compressor stopping. Whether you use a hookah or a tank, a bailout in the form of a pony bottle is a good idea if you go deeper than you are comfortable making a free ascent. This can just be rigged like a small deco bottle with boltsnaps and clipped to the waist belt securing your really long second stage hose. A horse collar BC also works well in this situation and a 6-19 cu ft pony can be clipped to the waist belt of the BC either in back or in front.
In the last couple years we started using genuine 100' long LP hoses for some of our commercial work because it is more fleaxible in cold water. But to be honest for years we used reinforced vinyl hose from the local hardware store with the appropriate fittings added on each end to make it work with the first and second stage. It is the same hose used in carbnonated beverage applications, will handle the pressure required for scuba diving and is really quite inexpensive. We still use this type of hose combined with a manifold to fill lift bags from the surface in heavy lift operations.
The only time I fill my 130 is to use a 30ft hose to do prop or zinc work on boats, I get 3-4 hours of not too strenuous work on a fill. Make sure the reg is anchored to your body I use an old pre BC backpack, or it will get hooked up and pulled out regularly. Having someone on the dock to feed the hose out at the start is nice also.
This is a common rig here in BC for dock based work.
This is a common rig here in BC for dock based work.
SeaJay, yes I'm certified (certifiable too maybe 
) Scubatoys, that is exactly right, 5' would be about a max depth. Boat's 34', so I figure 20' of hose would be adequate for reach, not depth. nwdiver2, thanks for the attaching tip, I hadn't thought of that... I'm sure I'd have discovered the need in about 2 minutes though! $2 a foot sounds like a fair price but DA Aquamaster's tip about the beverage hose seems worth following up on. Thanks to all, I knew I'd find valuable help here! ...N
) Scubatoys, that is exactly right, 5' would be about a max depth. Boat's 34', so I figure 20' of hose would be adequate for reach, not depth. nwdiver2, thanks for the attaching tip, I hadn't thought of that... I'm sure I'd have discovered the need in about 2 minutes though! $2 a foot sounds like a fair price but DA Aquamaster's tip about the beverage hose seems worth following up on. Thanks to all, I knew I'd find valuable help here! ...NSimilar threads
