A couple of months ago I watched a guy dive dry here in the PI. He looked absolutely miserable on the short ride to the dive site and said it didn't get much better under the water. It was only on a long night dive that he enjoyed his DS.WaterDawg:
Redundant bouyancy in DIR?
- Thread starter wunat
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OP
Thanks to you all folks!!!
My doubles are AL80s and I will be diving in a 3mm suit. The setup wasn't significantly negative that I can't even swim up to the surface without air in my wing.
I have started this thread coz I would like to understand the difference in approaches in regards to actually needing a redundant buoyancy. I personally prefer and leans toward the DIR ways of how things are done. But lots of people around me who are diving tech are DSAT-certified which required a back-up buoyancy. Just want to enlighten myself with your experiences and knowledges.
Anyway, got what I am looking for. Thank you dude. You guys are great.
My doubles are AL80s and I will be diving in a 3mm suit. The setup wasn't significantly negative that I can't even swim up to the surface without air in my wing.
I have started this thread coz I would like to understand the difference in approaches in regards to actually needing a redundant buoyancy. I personally prefer and leans toward the DIR ways of how things are done. But lots of people around me who are diving tech are DSAT-certified which required a back-up buoyancy. Just want to enlighten myself with your experiences and knowledges.
Anyway, got what I am looking for. Thank you dude. You guys are great.
If you have a balance rig you SMB should be good enough for back up bouancy device.
Since I also dive in Thailand and my wing failed on my recent trip, I was able to sim my self up from 30m with full tank. I got my SMB and my buddy so its more than plenty redundancy.
Since I also dive in Thailand and my wing failed on my recent trip, I was able to sim my self up from 30m with full tank. I got my SMB and my buddy so its more than plenty redundancy.
Life-Is-Good-Diver
Contributor
This is right off GUE's website :
Buoyancy Compensators
Many divers mistakenly believe that they must have large buoyancy compensators to support their diving needs. Actually, divers do not need excessive amounts of lift; large wings, because of the additional material they require, only serve to increase drag. However, if a diver does need more than 65 pounds of lift for diving doubles, or more than 30 pounds for diving singles, then they do not have a balanced rig. The diver should be able to drop unnecessary weight and swim up without a functioning BC. As with all diving, the key component to proper buoyancy is diving with a properly balanced rig.
Divers using dual BCs have experienced an array of problems including increased drag, additional task loading and uncontrolled inflation. There is never a need for “redundant buoyancy” in a properly balanced rig. The DIR approach avoids the use of dual BCs, and instead stresses proper balance between BC, cylinders, weighting and exposure suit.
Some BC's have become known as “bondage wings” because they support a series of elastic bands that restrict the size of the wings. This design introduces a whole new range of problems for the diver who selects to use them. These include: uneven inflation, off-kilter trim, the potential exacerbation of small BC punctures, increased drag, and resistance to manual inflation. In short, bondage style wings have no place in DIR diving configurations. Historically, divers have had to make a number of changes to their BC in order to increase its reliability. The DIR diver can make some fairly simple changes to these wings to increase their ease of operation and to extend their longevity. First, if the wing is not constructed with internal protection for the bladder, then the inner bladder can be covered with inner tube material to protect it against being punctured. Second, the corrugated hose on nearly all BCs is far too long and therefore, because of its length, often impossible to streamline. By refitting the BC with a shorter corrugated hose, and coupling it with a custom inflator hose, the diver can significantly improve the cleanliness of his/her system. Finally, all BC fittings should be checked to ensure that they are secure. Alternatively, divers can avoid all these modifications, and purchase a BC that is specifically designed for DIR, namely, the Halcyon BC.
I just sold my whole set up, which was a OMS Dual bladder bungeed wing , and switched everything over to " DIR " including BP , wing, everything.
You can bid on my OMS 60lb dual bladder wing on Ebay, under flrecdiver
As for redundancy, if you have a trimmed out BP/wing, tanks, suit, everything, like you should, a small lift bag, or smb will be fine , as others stated.
Buoyancy Compensators
Many divers mistakenly believe that they must have large buoyancy compensators to support their diving needs. Actually, divers do not need excessive amounts of lift; large wings, because of the additional material they require, only serve to increase drag. However, if a diver does need more than 65 pounds of lift for diving doubles, or more than 30 pounds for diving singles, then they do not have a balanced rig. The diver should be able to drop unnecessary weight and swim up without a functioning BC. As with all diving, the key component to proper buoyancy is diving with a properly balanced rig.
Divers using dual BCs have experienced an array of problems including increased drag, additional task loading and uncontrolled inflation. There is never a need for “redundant buoyancy” in a properly balanced rig. The DIR approach avoids the use of dual BCs, and instead stresses proper balance between BC, cylinders, weighting and exposure suit.
Some BC's have become known as “bondage wings” because they support a series of elastic bands that restrict the size of the wings. This design introduces a whole new range of problems for the diver who selects to use them. These include: uneven inflation, off-kilter trim, the potential exacerbation of small BC punctures, increased drag, and resistance to manual inflation. In short, bondage style wings have no place in DIR diving configurations. Historically, divers have had to make a number of changes to their BC in order to increase its reliability. The DIR diver can make some fairly simple changes to these wings to increase their ease of operation and to extend their longevity. First, if the wing is not constructed with internal protection for the bladder, then the inner bladder can be covered with inner tube material to protect it against being punctured. Second, the corrugated hose on nearly all BCs is far too long and therefore, because of its length, often impossible to streamline. By refitting the BC with a shorter corrugated hose, and coupling it with a custom inflator hose, the diver can significantly improve the cleanliness of his/her system. Finally, all BC fittings should be checked to ensure that they are secure. Alternatively, divers can avoid all these modifications, and purchase a BC that is specifically designed for DIR, namely, the Halcyon BC.
I just sold my whole set up, which was a OMS Dual bladder bungeed wing , and switched everything over to " DIR " including BP , wing, everything.
You can bid on my OMS 60lb dual bladder wing on Ebay, under flrecdiver
As for redundancy, if you have a trimmed out BP/wing, tanks, suit, everything, like you should, a small lift bag, or smb will be fine , as others stated.
Kevrumbo
Banned
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X-Shorts Left Pocket: Dive Alert Horn, 75' Spool, Spare Mask, EMT Shears, Signal Mirror & Strobe.
Right Pocket: 100' Spool, Extra-Double Ender Bolt Snap, & Wetnotes for a Record Log (or impromptu Last Will & Testament!).
Backplate MC Storage Pak: 80lb. Liftbag/SMB, also used for Redundant/Emergency Buoyancy in case of Wing Failure at depth.
Backplate Bottom Edge Mounted: Halcyon Diver's Life Raft in pouch, secured with Bungie Shock Cord (http://www.halcyon.net/mc/dlr.shtml ).
Hydration Bag (http://www.deepseasupply.com/page22.html ).
Primary 10W HID and two back-up Scout lights.
Right Pocket: 100' Spool, Extra-Double Ender Bolt Snap, & Wetnotes for a Record Log (or impromptu Last Will & Testament!).
Backplate MC Storage Pak: 80lb. Liftbag/SMB, also used for Redundant/Emergency Buoyancy in case of Wing Failure at depth.
Backplate Bottom Edge Mounted: Halcyon Diver's Life Raft in pouch, secured with Bungie Shock Cord (http://www.halcyon.net/mc/dlr.shtml ).
Hydration Bag (http://www.deepseasupply.com/page22.html ).
Primary 10W HID and two back-up Scout lights.
Ben_ca
Contributor
nagonoj:
How did your wing "Fail"?
Kevrumbo
Banned
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Yep; got the closed circuit 80lb. Liftbag from Halcyon with the No-Loc connector valve (my first SMB and nearly five years old now); others in the collection include a giant 6' long, 52lb. lift SMB (primary use is out here in the Shipping Lanes coming into the Ports of Los Angeles/Long Beach), and a yellow semi-closed circuit SMB by Dive Rite.catherine96821:
SparticleBrane
Contributor
Kevrumbo what are your thoughts about the Halcyon Diver's Life Raft? I'm half tempted to get one at some point for offshore diving here in NC. It's one of those "dear God I hope I never have to use this" pieces of equipment, but would be nice if I were somehow separated from the boat...
edit: link
http://halcyon.net/mc/dlr.shtml
edit 2: I see that you have one.
In that case--ever used it before? Does it actually work?
edit: link
http://halcyon.net/mc/dlr.shtml
edit 2: I see that you have one.
In that case--ever used it before? Does it actually work?
Kevrumbo
Banned
- Messages
- 5,659
- Reaction score
- 1,366
- # of dives
- 1000 - 2499
Yes it does work; gives you a fighting chance against hypothermia by at least getting your body out of the water. It's a little bit of work/trial & error to pack it in its pouch and mount the package to the Back Plate's Bottom Edge with the correct length of bungie shock cord (no 'effin way can you stow that package in the MC pak). Fill it slow and carefully --it's easy to overwhelm the OPV especially if it's sticking-- I blew out a seam this way. Halcyon gladly replaced it for free (but they will not replace one that is punctured).SparticleBrane:
Gonna augment this set-up by adding a personal EPIRB in a canister as well. . .
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