Redundancy w/doubles in warm water

[JeffG]

Oh, now you've done it. Went and opened the door. Balanced vs. Unbalanced; compressibility vs. constant bouyancy; Black vs. Pink.

Your Right...%$#%$# that then.

I will carry a whole bunch of balloons in my X-Shorts instead.

 

[darylm74]

Oh, now you've done it. Went and opened the door. Balanced vs. Unbalanced; compressibility vs. constant bouyancy; Black vs. Pink.

.....be my guest. I hear DSS makes a nice pink wing

 

[onfloat]

I would normally be diving a balanced rig with a drysuit. I'm thinking outside the box here. Let's think 3 mil with a set of doubles. I've been in a 7 mil with doubles and I wear no weight, as I figure no one does, unless I'm the only one that plummets like a rock unless I add air to my wing or drysuit.

How full is your wing at the end of the dive? How over weight are you at the begining of the dive? What's the plan if your wing fails at the begining of the dive?

A drysuit is not neccesarily redundant bouyancy, so much as it's bouyancy doesn't change with depth. (talking shell suit and not a neoprene dry suit.)

 

[onfloat]

Your Right...%$#%$# that then.

I will carry a whole bunch of balloons in my X-Shorts instead.

Just fill them with helium that way they will float better.

 

[darylm74]

How full is your wing at the end of the dive? How over weight are you at the begining of the dive? What's the plan if your wing fails at the begining of the dive?

A drysuit is not neccesarily redundant bouyancy, so much as it's bouyancy doesn't change with depth. (talking shell suit and not a neoprene dry suit.)

....no drysuit (you're in 85 degree water in a 3 mil). You have enough air in your wing at time of catastrophy to make you neutral with a pair of doubles. What is your contingency? Do you have a dual bladder wing, two wings or a lift bag? If not, what is your contingency plan? Is there something I'm not thinking of here? If so, then what? I don't learn to be a smarter diver by not wondering about the what ifs.

 

[darylm74]

Lets back up and say that you are alone. Your got seperated from your buddy. I did a search on this and didn't come up with anything. I may have just been using the wrong search terms though. I know there are DIR methods as well as others. I don't care the philosophy. I want to know the possibilities.

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

Well, I was going to say my team mate / dive buddy / spouse is my next level of redundancy, but now you've written the scenario so she collects whatever-level-indemnity life insurance I suppose (you sure you're not in collusion somehow?). Actually, this is one reason I try to stay on her good side (among many others). So far, it's worked out.

So, have you now written the scenario such that the only options are drowning or ditching the gear and trying a CESA? Or getting DIR training? Or having an umpteen-foot second stage hose so you can ditch the twins to the bottom and still swim and breathe? Just curious, since you seem to have answers you haven't posted.

In the industrial world, the two biggest weaknessess of the 'What If' methodology I've seen are as follows:

1. What If you don't ask enough What If questions?

and,

2. What If you don't ask the most critical What If questions?

In general, I have found methodologies with more structure tailored for the application to have better results - but I'm interested to see what you catch here.


The weakness for the 'what if' to result in lots of trivial stuff has already appeared - including my own post here. Maybe I could get an endless second stage hose that reels back into one of those portable holes from that company Wile E. Coyote is always ordering stuff from to mitigate this scenario.

 

[onfloat]

Dbl steels at the end of a dive are negative or just barely neutral. At the beginning of a dive they are way negative. (E8-130's -20lbs)
Dbl Aluminum 80's at the end of a dive are positive, (6lbs give or take) at the beginning of the dive they are negative (8-10 lbs).

The goal at the end of the dive is to be neutral or close to it (A balanced rig) with no gas in your wing. With Dbl AL80's and a wet suit your going to be positively buoyant at the end of the dive. 10-20 lbs depending on your natural buoyancy and the suit.
That means putting some weight on with dbl AL80's. If your in a wetsuit and you make that weight not ditchable (v-weight, plates on your backplate) you have removed one option in the event of a wing failure at the beginning of your dive. The deeper you go in the wetsuit the less it floats. So now your negative at the beginning of the dive as you sink you are losing buoyancy with the compression of your wet suit. That's what was with the ditchable weight comment that I made at the beginning with out any explanation.

Now if your wearing steel doubles with a wet suit your in the same boat as dbl al80's without any ditchable weight. The drysuit gives you one more option, plus it will not change it's bouyancy with depth.

 

[darylm74]

Dbl steels at the end of a dive are negative or just barely neutral. At the beginning of a dive they are way negative. (E8-130's -20lbs)
Dbl Aluminum 80's at the end of a dive are positive, (6lbs give or take) at the beginning of the dive they are negative (8-10 lbs).

The goal at the end of the dive is to be neutral or close to it (A balanced rig) with no gas in your wing. With Dbl AL80's and a wet suit your going to be positively buoyant at the end of the dive. 10-20 lbs depending on your natural buoyancy and the suit.
That means putting some weight on with dbl AL80's. If your in a wetsuit and you make that weight not ditchable (v-weight, plates on your backplate) you have removed one option in the event of a wing failure at the beginning of your dive. The deeper you go in the wetsuit the less it floats. So now your negative at the beginning of the dive as you sink you are losing buoyancy with the compression of your wet suit. That's what was with the ditchable weight comment that I made at the beginning with out any explanation.

Now if your wearing steel doubles with a wet suit your in the same boat as dbl al80's without any ditchable weight. The drysuit gives you one more option, plus it will not change it's bouyancy with depth.

....stick with the game plan and keep the drysuit if I dive steels and use AL80's when diving wet. The whole "ditchable" weight thing seems to be an issue depending on a diver's philosphy. I believe I am on the right track however I do not claim to know much by any means. I appreciate your input.