Red Flags or Misplaced Expectations?

[broncobowsher]

No better way to kill a hobby you love then to make a job of it.

 

[rmssetc]

Let me correct that for you:

Here is a story that exactly sums up the role of a bad boss in a typical dive shop.

• When we peons boarded the flights to and from the USA, the owner never even looked up from where he was sipping his cocktail in the first class cabin as we passed.
• We had severe weight restrictions for the flights to and from Ecuador to the Galapagos. With the weight of our dive gear, we could bare bring clothes. As we waited for the weigh-in at the airport, the owner and senior management people, who had huge cameras and other such stuff, were chatting amongst themselves, but within earshot of everyone else. They said they had paid no attention to the weight limits, and they all had more than double the weight limit. The shop owner then had the airport people weigh all the bags together. He had them divide the total overweight fees by the total number of passengers, so we were all charged enough to cover their overweight fees.

There can be bad bosses in any industry.
Small businesses with lots of casual employees facilitate bad behavior.

Out of self respect, I sincerely hope you quit before the flight even landed.

 

[Dan G]

@Dan G the original post was now some 50+ posts ago - and I always learn a few things reading through the exchanges, but let's get back to your instincts here - what does your gut tell you ? That's what you go with.

Thank you. My gut tells me that this shop likes my money but not me. At least not enough to want me to work there. All the minor and some of the major red flags I have noticed over the last 10-11 months (I haven't mentioned all of them) came to a head as I completed AI. I had some hesitations throughout the process but set them aside because sometimes we need to do that as we enter a new endeavor.

I am not here to bash the shop. It's a fine shop with plenty of good qualities. Lots of good people work there, they are a B-Corp which is cool, and they have good youth outreach. That's just the way it goes and I am fortunate enough to have a spouse who has been super supportive of this regardless of the outcome.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

My first job out of high school was a union job. They had lots of little sayings, some stuck with me for life. One was… Never work for free!

The problem is so many want to turn their hobby into a job, that there’s always someone willing to do it. Problem is, when you turn your hobby into a job, it becomes work.

If everyone just said no, they would have to pay a living wage. That’s basically what a union is, organized labor.

The ONLY REASON it is the way it is is because there are still glossy eyed suckers willing to do the job for sucker pay. It’s a labor if love/hobby job. What’s happening is all the instructors that used to be around quit, retired, moved on, died, etc. and there are very few new instructors coming into the field because they can’t afford to. The cost of living has soared to the point that people need to make good money just to survive. Instructor pay isn’t even beer money anymore. The numbers just don’t add up.
What dive shop owners and the industry in general needs to realize is that this business model is NOT SUSTAINABLE!
A lack of instructors means a lack of certified divers which means less overall revenue in instruction and gear sales. They will kill the industry. Shop owners will find themselves out there teaching themselves, and after teaching they can spend nights and weekend at their service bench because they can’t find service techs either.

 

[broncobowsher]

Except it would probably shift to an even more online based education. The instructor cut down to 20 minutes of face time with a student (done dozens per day). Online education.

 

[ofg-1]

No better way to kill a hobby you love then to make a job of it.

45 years ago, Bob Axelrod, the Southeast YMCA Scuba commissioner, had a saying:
"Divers Dive, Instructors Instruct". If you want to dive, go diving, if you want to instruct, go for it.

 

[Scuba_Jenny]

Most of the people who work in dive shops in the keys have roommates. Rent is high. Commuting from the mainland to the keys is at least 20 miles, often more. Shops are a dime a dozen.

I got a real eye opener when I had some out of town friends come down for a week of diving. Local plans fell through for a boat dive, and we looked at the keys. Every shop we looked at had ridiculous rules. One of them was a list to check off. If you checked off any item, you had to have a doctors approval to dive.. One item was over the age of 40. I was the youngest at 60. Most shops require an AOW for an OW dive (70 ft). The rules alone told me what the keys are dealing with.. vacation divers who mostly need hand held. Gone are the days we could run down there and jump on a boat when the weather bad up here.

I live an hour from the keys. I've often thought of heading down there to work as a DM. Could never justify the cost for the little bit of money I'd be making, and working my butt off, probably not diving much either.

Based on what you wrote, I'd say big red flags..
Based on what those in the know - instructors and the like who have posted, there seems to be agreement.

 

[berndo]

I'm for transparency

Apparently not.

The big issue is that scuba is a niche market and will stay that way it is not important to most and that frustrates the scuba fanatics!

Has absolutely nothing to do with how instructor training is conducted or anything else related to 'careers in diving'. I assume you've also never worked in the business.

 

[berndo]

The ONLY REASON it is the way it is is because there are still glossy eyed suckers willing to do the job for sucker pay

Exactly. The issue is that people (mostly CDs/ITs) are pushing these instructor classes as investments into a career. Often to 20-some kids who don't realise that. There is a lot of lying and BS going on when these instructor classes are sold. Everybody who's actually worked, knows this.

There were times my per pupil pay got me to less than $2 per hour.

Thanks, that's why I ask for numbers. When people talk about low pay they don't realise what that means. If we can't talk about actual numbers when it comes to cost and expenses, the whole 'career in diving' forum is pointless.

The stuff I found online gives numbers... but they never say that you have a bunch of expenses, such as fees and insurance, etc. Depending on the country you also have high cost of living, have to pay taxes... sometimes have to work 60-70 hour weeks etc.

This forum enjoys special rules against flaming, snark, and disrespectful posting. I have just deleted more than 10 posts which are far over the line here.

Why can't you guys boot people from these threads when they have nothing to say about a given topic? Who gives a sh_t about someones opinion on working as an instructor or quality of training when they have never done it. It'd be very interesting to hear what experiences people have, but it's hardly possible when the same clueless people interjecting with nonsense.

The nature of this thread is a touchy subject.

Ironically, it's seem to be a touchy subject to people that never worked.

 

[Scuba_Jenny]

Exactly. The issue is that people (mostly CDs/ITs) are pushing these instructor classes as investments into a career. Often to 20-some kids who don't realise that. There is a lot of lying and BS going on when these instructor classes are sold. Everybody who's actually worked, knows this.

Interesting.. Schools- or better yet, places of learning, are in the business of selling an education. They don't care if you have to take out a loan, a parent + loan, refinance your house, borrow from friends and relatives...or anything else. Most kids and parents do not look into how much money you can actually make in a career, or go so far as to investigate the career itself. Go shadow somebody for a month...
What the school sells and what is truth has a large gap. And not just traditional colleges, any specialty also.. helicopter pilots (stupid ridicolous amount to pay to learn for very few jobs), Social Workers (need a masters to get in the door at entry level pay).. and I am sure there are a lot more.. Oh, yeah, Scuba Instructors.....