Recent shots of Kingston (this Weekend)

[Jimmy B]

Some OW students get debriefed

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Course Photo

Evening dive on the Comet

Visitation with an old friend the Mapleglen

Inside the Glendora

Hanging around the Cornwall

Manditory dive on the Munson

 

[ScubaBob1]

I'm still finding rust on my gear from the Munson's bucket due to my swim through of said bucket on July 5th.
Nice Comet shot by the way. Question for you. We had a DM in training rag on one of the advanced divers in our group for doing the swim between the boilers. Since you've dived her, would you consider that a swim through or an overhead? The advanced diver is not wreck certified but fairly experienced and was with myself on that one. From everything I was taught, I would consider that a swim through and an easy one at that. Your thoughts?
Whupps, one other Comet related question. There's a broken plate near the boilers. Took a quick macro of the manufacturers mark but it didn't turn out. Anyone have a manufacturer info on it? Interesting design.

 

[Jimmy B]

Overhead due to the silt and twisting and turning to get in and out,

 

[ScubaBob1]

Hmm, it's straight through with a slight left hook and up through the timbers. I managed to do a circle to see how my buddy was. Maybe you're bigger than I. Are we talking about the same area?
Silt?
What's that? Vis was actually quite fine.
Anything on that broken plate? It was located on a cross member just aft of the boilers.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Kevin R]

I'm still finding rust on my gear from the Munson's bucket due to my swim through of said bucket on July 5th.
Nice Comet shot by the way. Question for you. We had a DM in training rag on one of the advanced divers in our group for doing the swim between the boilers. Since you've dived her, would you consider that a swim through or an overhead? The advanced diver is not wreck certified but fairly experienced and was with myself on that one. From everything I was taught, I would consider that a swim through and an easy one at that. Your thoughts?
Whupps, one other Comet related question. There's a broken plate near the boilers. Took a quick macro of the manufacturers mark but it didn't turn out. Anyone have a manufacturer info on it? Interesting design.

Whether its an overhead or a swim through is not the question. What was so important in there in there that made it a ok to risk damaging a fragile site by going through?

What did you accomplish by swimming through the bucket. The rust coating on that bucket is like a scab on a cut, if you remove that scab, the cut will bleed again and scar. A perfect example of this are the windows on the Keystorm. When I started diving 10 years ago they were square, now they are almost round from divers grabbing the edges to pull themselves in and have a look. I don't dive the keystorm any more, its just too sad to look at.

How many more divers will be able to squeeze themselves through the slats in the Comet's wheels before there are no more wheels left to see. Over the years many of us have been watching those wheels slowly spread apart so they likely dont have much longer left in thier current condition. How many more paddle wheelers are going to sink so we can dive sites like these?

We are among the most fortunate divers in the world to have intact wrecks to dive on. These are one of a kind dive sites and its time to stop thinking we're all technical divers penetrating every hole we find just because its there and start thinking about wreck preservation again before these sites are nothing more than piles of lumber not worth visiting.

 

[ScubaBob1]

Well then Kevin, you'd better start lobbying for no dive sites period. You're forgetting that bubble exhaust contributes significantly to wreck deterioration. I gather from your stance on the matter you never penetrate wrecks?
Additionally, I wasn't asking if the Munson's bucket was a considered a swim through. I asked Jimmy if the boilers on the Comet were. This thread is going south in a hurry so I think I'll just unsubscribe.

 

[Kevin R]

Well then Kevin, you'd better start lobbying for no dive sites period. You're forgetting that bubble exhaust contributes significantly to wreck deterioration. I gather from your stance on the matter you never penetrate wrecks?
Additionally, I wasn't asking if the Munson's bucket was a considered a swim through. I asked Jimmy if the boilers on the Comet were. This thread is going south in a hurry so I think I'll just unsubscribe.

I commented on the comet as well and now the thread is moving in a new direction. The thread isn't going south, its just not going your way. My apologies if that upsets you.

To answer your question, I don't penetrate fragile sites like the munson or comet. I reserve that for modern sites like the Wolf Islander or Jodry. Your attitude seems to be that you have a right to bash around a site without consideration. Do you walk into a museum and start climbing all over the exhibits? It amounts to basically the same thing. You are aware that the bubbles cause acellerated wear, are you also aware that knocking off zebra mussel clumps is far worse than what the bubbles damage since the mussels anchor themselves into the wood? My "stance" is that we have to think about what we are doing when we are on these sites.

What I am saying is as divers we have a duty to think about the sites we are on. We have very few intact wooden wrecks left and the acellerated wear that we have seen in the last 5-10 years is incredible. Im questioning whether or not we'll get another 10 years out of these sites at the current rate of decay.

 

[Busdiver]

Your attitude seems to be that you have a right to bash around a site without consideration.

I did not read this in anyone's responses. Unless you all are talking on the phone or pm-ing each other this is inaccurate.

Do you walk into a museum and start climbing all over the exhibits?

Only the sex museum in Amsterdam.

You are aware that the bubbles cause acellerated wear, are you also aware that knocking off zebra mussel clumps is far worse than what the bubbles damage since the mussels anchor themselves into the wood? My "stance" is that we have to think about what we are doing when we are on these sites.

Excellent point. I am in complete agreement. However, do we treat a wreck site like we should be treating a coral reef? No touch, just look? When do we make the determination to only allow certain sites as "penetrable?" Because once a boat goes under it starts the process of disintegrating.

What I am saying is as divers we have a duty to think about the sites we are on.

Amen. Heck yes. OW classes need to teach that reefs are not the only areas that need to be protected.


I really like this thread because it is addressing some real issues that are ignored in our region. There is constant talk about protecting salt water assets. What about our fresh water sites?

 

[converted]

A swim through IMHO is big enough for you and your buddy to get inside with out touching anythiing, if your scraping and crunching then it's penetration and should only be attempted in the bedroom .

After seeing what happened to the Kinghorn in the last 15 years one quickly changes thier mind about ability and needs to enter wooden wrecks.

 

[Kevin R]

snip
Your attitude seems to be that you have a right to bash around a site without consideration.
snip.

snip
I did not read this in anyone's responses. Unless you all are talking on the phone or pm-ing each other this is inaccurate.snip

Nothing was said directly, it was more of the feeling I got when after being argued with over pointing out the lackadasical approach to diving a fragile site. Perhaps I was reading between the lines.

snip
I really like this thread because it is addressing some real issues that are ignored in our region. There is constant talk about protecting salt water assets. What about our fresh water sites?

Wreck preservation was once pushed heavily in the Eastern Ontario area, but in the last few years, especailly since technical diving has become the in vogue thing to do, it seems to have taken a back burner and now only gets lip service. Wreck preservation seems to be like enviromental issues for politicians, ignore it until it either becomes a severe problem or until it is in your favor to promote it.

Given how the wrecks in the St. Lawrence and Kingston area are much more acessable due to conditions and depth than in the rest of the great lakes, it stands to reason that they will bear the brunt of the damage from diver impact. This is where organizeations like SOS and POW need to really step in and push preservation to the forefront via education such as trade show displays and through the NAS1 courses. Unfortunately, I dont seem to see them pushing this as heavily as they used to. It would be great to see PADI or the charter organizations taking a more active role, but since they are commercial entities, I'm of the opinion that nothing will be done by them until the problems start to hurt thier bottom line and by then it will be too late. The best active form of wreck preservation I've seen yet is peer pressure.