Rebreather or not?

[Dave Bevan]

@Dave Bevan

I live as an expat in West Africa currently- concerning flying I may take your fears. Most units are extremely light and easily fit when flying piece concept. (My rEvo normally weighs well below 23kg in a pelicase incl. some seals etc. as spares)

Depending where you reside you may require a booster for filling up your O2 and Dil bottle- this may be a point to concider in the later stage. The first time flowing over from bottles can do. Scrubbers require Sorb which you may have to either import (can assist with IATA letters in copy concerning the corrosive symbols on the containers) or purchase locally. I often got sorb from local hospitals for few cents- this may be of advantage to you as well.

Remember, some CCR such as the se7en only use pre-packed scrubbers- this may ruin your plans.

However, I feel you are on track and you will be CCR only soon

Yeah being able to fly will be a massive consideration for me but that is unit selection which I've tried to avoid given it's a massive post in itself.

For me this is about making the switch and deciding when/if to make the jump.

I'm not even sure I would bring my unit back to KSA for fear of it being confiscated.

 

[Dave Bevan]

@Dave Bevan

You should hook up with Capt. Mahmoud Zahran. He is a NAUI Course Director trainer based in Jeddah and is the top technical instructor there. He may help you to go technical diving there to increase your U/W time and, perhaps, go to more exciting technical dive sites there.

His FB page: www.facebook.com/InstractorMahmoud

If you send me your fb page link, I'd do the introduction.

Thank you. I am familiar with some of the guys he is friends with. I'm not familiar with the agency being from the UK.

Dave

 

[Dave Bevan]

You can get training through GUE tech 2 in UAE, and there are a lot more GUE CCR instructors than there were the last time I looked. So unless you have some good reason to hate the JJ you might consider doing it that way. It's actually less courses than for many other agencies to get to hypoxic trimix. You don't have to take cave 1 to take tech 2. You only need to have cave 1 to teach tech 1.

I'm hooked up with GUE and I really like there OC philosophy. I really enjoyed my fundamentals course. However bear in mind even if we are talking absolute bare minimums then I need about another 15 or so dives at fundies level. Then I would be able to do tech 1. Which is expensive due to the fact that you are on helium for any dive below 30m. Then I would need at least 25 dives at tech one level before I would even be considering Tech 2 which is astronomical in terms of cost. Then after that I would need another bear minimum of 25 dives before being ready to start on the GUE configuration of the JJ CCR. If the endgame is rebreather based diving then the costs of just doing the diving between tech 2 and JJCCR alone would easily outweigh the costs of buying a unit and MOD1 course.

I think the GUE syllabus is great but to sell it as a cheap way into rebreathers is a little misleading IMO. Its like becoming a black belt at Judo in order to start Boxing only to then have to box 'judo style' because your built up the muscle memory.

It's not that I wouldn't mind going down the GUE route. Up until a while ago that is exactly what I wanted to do. But I'm honestly not sure it's right for me anymore.

 

[Dave Bevan]

So, in review: tech pass in fundies, looking to eventually do 100m dives in exploration environments?

Why do "Extended Range Limited Trimix" and then more GUE courses rather than go directly to Tech 1? You'll get down to 51m, 21/35, 18/45, 50% or 100% with 30min of deco.

As for the RB portion. GUE has a stance of adding it into your diving after learning OC skills with multiple bottles (post Tech 2). Once you have your RB, you're good to go (gradually, no sense in doing a 400ft RB dive right after the course). No MOD 1, MOD 2, MOD 3, etc.

As for your future goal of 100m exploration. Do you have people or group of people in mind to do this with? What are their certifications?

It's a lot easier to do a dive like that if everyone is on the same page from the same background ... is it a GUE dive, a TDI dive, a DIR/DIKR/DIRW dive? (ex: I have no problems doing a GUE Tech 1 dive with any GUE Tech 1 diver from anywhere in the world after just meeting on the boat before splashing .... not so much with anyone from outside that training until after a few dives, and I would hope for the same reaction if I was to join in on someone else's dive - other training).

RB aren't cheap (GUE JJ is roughly 15-18K all said and done), and getting to those depths takes a while (either through MODs or GUE). Two different approaches......


I'm in a similar boat in regards to location .... I'm 12hrs away from where I do my tech diving and try to get out there for "long weekends" every month or so (averages out to be every 4 weeks), and when diving locally, it's shallow fresh water diving. For me, I don't have a giant pile of funds, but do have enough to keep my happy with a Tech 1 level with fun toys (cameras, scooters, and warm water travel every year). Maybe in upcoming years I may go on to Tech 2, but that's only if there are more dives that I really want to do, and can keep up the commitment of Tech 2 dives .... or I move over some mountain ranges closer to a coast.....


_R

Hi Ralph.

The main reason why I'm going for Extended Range Limited Trimix is because I actually see it as a step toward Tech 1. In GUE terms it's more like doing Rec 3 (45m, Tx 21/30 below 30m, limited decompression).

It is also a chance to try a different instructor and build on my skills. As well as introducing myself to a different set of divers. I am having a big problem finding buddies that are GUE trained to dive with. This is leaving a skill gap where I'm not learning from peers on dives. This is becoming a problem for me.

I was a little naive perhaps to believe that by doing a fundies course suddenly every gue diver would take me under their wing and I would be diving every weekend. The truth is most GUE guys in my area are diving at more advanced levels. They aren't massively interested in doing recreational level stuff.

Another thing I don't like about GUE RB diving is that I don't get to choose my unit. It has to be a JJCCR. I don't have a problem with the JJCCR (in fact it's high on my list of things I think are awesome) but I feel it very limited.

Then also there is also that a lot of people looks down there nose at GUE divers. It's all very political.

 

[KevinNM]

I'm hooked up with GUE and I really like there OC philosophy. I really enjoyed my fundamentals course. However bear in mind even if we are talking absolute bare minimums then I need about another 15 or so dives at fundies level. Then I would be able to do tech 1. Which is expensive due to the fact that you are on helium for any dive below 30m. Then I would need at least 25 dives at tech one level before I would even be considering Tech 2 which is astronomical in terms of cost. Then after that I would need another bear minimum of 25 dives before being ready to start on the GUE configuration of the JJ CCR. If the endgame is rebreather based diving then the costs of just doing the diving between tech 2 and JJCCR alone would easily outweigh the costs of buying a unit and MOD1 course.

I think the GUE syllabus is great but to sell it as a cheap way into rebreathers is a little misleading IMO. Its like becoming a black belt at Judo in order to start Boxing only to then have to box 'judo style' because your built up the muscle memory.

It's not that I wouldn't mind going down the GUE route. Up until a while ago that is exactly what I wanted to do. But I'm honestly not sure it's right for me anymore.

Can't tell you what to do, I will repeat what an instructor pointed out to me: a rebreather diver who has bailed out is now an open circuit diver. If you are not completely confident and experienced in doing that kind of dive on open circuit you are going to be in a not good place when you need to do it after realizing your rebreather is about to kill you, as you are probably not at 100% of your usual capability.

I have no idea what the cost of helium in UAE is, the first place I can find it online (Pompano dive center in Florida) 15/55 is $0.90 per cubic foot. So it's expensive, but not insane.

 

[Dave Bevan]

I agree with you totally. However you could argue the reverse that 2 years working up the depths in a rebreather may be more beneficial for the dive when you aren't that experienced on your unit.

I'm not advocating either I'm mulling it over. I certainly still want to do gue tech 1 as I think it's a great course and has merits of its own.

It's just a case of what fits best. I could also do a regimen of say 1 in 10 dives I'll bail out. I could dive both CC and OC. There are lots of options.

 

[kensuf]

I agree with you totally. However you could argue the reverse that 2 years working up the depths in a rebreather may be more beneficial for the dive when you aren't that experienced on your unit.

I'm not advocating either I'm mulling it over. I certainly still want to do gue tech 1 as I think it's a great course and has merits of its own.

It's just a case of what fits best. I could also do a regimen of say 1 in 10 dives I'll bail out. I could dive both CC and OC. There are lots of options.

You don't just jump on a rebreather and start doing 100m dives. You have to build some time on the unit first.

I'm a CCR instructor and my suggestion is spend more time on OC before getting a CCR. While a CCR is a great tool for specific purposes, it's not for everyone and you haven't given a compelling reason to get one.

 

[Larry7895]

Hi Dave. I started to dive a CCR well into my 50's after years of doing recreational and technical diving. My personal experience was that skill wise OC added little to my preparation other than being comfortable and confident in the stressful situations that undoubtedly will arise. I moved to CCR frankly because I was getting bored and given I am a bit older thought it was now or never. I really wished I hadn't waited, it is fantastic. It is true you do have to have a certain mindset and not mind too much whittling away a few hours in the shed prepping your baby but for me that is all part of the experience. I have now moved through Mod 2 and Mod 3 and enjoyed it so much I moved on to Cavern, Cave and Full Cave Trimix it has really expanded my diving horizons and I am now more and more traveling the world when I can and enjoying diving in exotic places and personally feel safer than I ever did on OC.
Units you will have to decide for yourself, they all have good and bad points. I know from experience though, if you can dive with a group of similar units it helps from an experience point of view as well as having spares handy! If I had any advice in this regard, research and pick the very best instructor you can find, in my opinion that is far, far more important than the unit.
As I do not know you I cannot really comment whether your experience is sufficient. Based on what you have said skill wise I am sure you would be more than fine. Diving a CCR however does task load you more and how you react under stressful situations can be exacerbated by that task loading. You need to evaluate that, honestly, yourself.
One final point, when I moved to CCR I pretty much gave up OC diving, preferring to use the CCR even on recreational dives that I could easily have done on a single tank because I wanted to practice, develop and keep my CCR skills sharp.........and I just flat-out enjoyed it. I will even now regularly do shallow dives just to practice and I am lucky I dive with a group on the same unit who have a similar attitude that facilitates this. Is once every 3 weeks enough? Probably yes if you are disciplined, but your progress will (and should) be slower. I have learned that spending time on the unit is very valuable and I learn some nuance on nearly every dive. Best of luck with your journey!

 

[PfcAJ]

Nothing about technical diving is cheap. Remove that idea from your mind. It doesn't have to be needlessly expensive, but it's not cheap. Going the cheap route will almost inevitably lead to less tha idea situations as you go down the path.

Master OC technical diving. Seriously. Learn as much as you can and dive your face off. A rebreather issue could impair you (hypoxia, hypercapnia). You will fall to what you've mastered. If you want to do serious **** like 100m exploration you need to be seriously good. No shortcuts.

I think you've identified that GUEs methods produce good divers, and can (and does) produce phenomenal explorers. It's not the only path up the mountain, but it's a proven path. You're also getting the community along with your training which imo is incredibly valuable. Exploration these days is a team activity. GUE plugs you in almost instantly with other explorers.

Fwiw, I was in a similar spot as you about 10 years ago. I have no regrets over the path I chose.

 

[Dave Bevan]

Nothing about technical diving is cheap. Remove that idea from your mind. It doesn't have to be needlessly expensive, but it's not cheap. Going the cheap route will almost inevitably lead to less tha idea situations as you go down the path.

Master OC technical diving. Seriously. Learn as much as you can and dive your face off. A rebreather issue could impair you (hypoxia, hypercapnia). You will fall to what you've mastered. If you want to do serious **** like 100m exploration you need to be seriously good. No shortcuts.

I think you've identified that GUEs methods produce good divers, and can (and does) produce phenomenal explorers. It's not the only path up the mountain, but it's a proven path. You're also getting the community along with your training which imo is incredibly valuable. Exploration these days is a team activity. GUE plugs you in almost instantly with other explorers.

Fwiw, I was in a similar spot as you about 10 years ago. I have no regrets over the path I chose.

This post certainly isn't about trying to make Technical diving cheap. It's more about spending my money in the best possible way.

I feel like maybe it's the right choice to keep going on OC Technical for at least another year whether with gue or another agency.

I think Tech 1 is probably the next route to go and I think get some deeper dives under my belt and then make a decision from there.