Rebreather fatality list, what’s happened to it?

[Alex Ouroboros]

Must. Have. A. Buddy. At. All. Times.
Cannot. Think. For. Oneself.

I’m not sure if faced with it I would have a preference for which way I was diving if I was unconscious….

I’ll just stick with being diligent at all times,,,

 

[Alex Ouroboros]

1. Never go solo rebreather diving: it is not Open Circuit so the diver is unaware of exactly when a rebreather fails.

Yeeaahhh???

1. Pre-breathe for at least 5 minutes to check your PPO2 is under control and CO2 scrubber is working,

Yeeaahhh???

Does this apply to diving blindfolded with no hud or alarms switched on?
Because I don’t normally do that myself..

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

Rebreather fatality list, what’s happened to it?​

It died.

 

[rjack321]

It does focus way too much on design features and mechanics, and accuse nearly every rebreather design as fatally and deliberately faulty. Partly why it is hard to read.

Well every CCR can kill you, so not entirely inaccurate there...

But as someone who has actually experienced water-blocked sensors before...

Were you diving in a ziplock bag with an iphone too?

How likely is it that something better will come? Is there any other useful public/annual accident summary and analysis for rebreather diving?

Zero likelihood, see last bullet for why.

However this (Rebreather Forum ) is far better than a death by death synopsis like you might find published by the AAC.

Actual information (e.g. dive logs & sensor data) are almost never made public, ever.

Why should they be and what *exactly* would you do with them?

Though someone did seem to share that in the case of the Stewart/Sotis incident here recently.

Because they were evidence in court and one of the most accomplished lawyers in scubaland (and part of that litigation) is a member here.

 

[Mod63]

Not to mention that at least 1 fatality was not even on a rebreather

 

[justinthedeeps]

Were you diving in a ziplock bag with an iphone too?

My water block happened during pre-breathe, between dives. CCR laid down in transit between dives got water droplets (condensation) on membranes, resulting in a completely "stuck open" solenoid. I never lay down a rebreather now without considering this possibility.

Just a minor dryout & rebuild (≤1hr, then another dive without issue). But it could be fatal for someone underwater. Also the opposite case--hypoxia with sensors stuck reading "good."

Yeah we train for this stuff, but it could still kill.

Could it be a factor in some fatalities? Yes it could. Do we blame people/training/awareness for not reacting properly? Maybe.

Is there anything to consider about how rebreathers are designed and used? Yeah, probably.

Why should they be and what *exactly* would you do with them?

There may be lessons about what happened with ppO₂ readings, what the depth profile looked like, what the gas mixes were (versus what they told the computer), GFs. These lessons could inform our own diving.

For years we were told that Stewart was hypoxic. One reaction was wow I guess we need to watch out for the hypoxia that got Stewart, who seemed like this amazing waterman. Now we finally see actually data showing that they were lying egregiously to computers, and had ppO2 readings/O2 supply that were totally fine.

Does knowing this affect how we dive, and what we pay extra attention to? It might.

The elites are certainly exposed to detailed information as expert witnesses / accident review committees. I do respect that this is a confidential process.

mV logs, for the lifetime of the rebreather or sensors, could actually be very informative, particularly if there were predictive signs of a problem developing. That is something that even a computer could learn to recognize. Calibration info dive-to-dive, what stuck sensors looks like, knowledge of sensor lifetime and responsiveness, ... This could be especially informative when analyzed alongside solenoid activity, and oxygen pressure relayed via wireless SPGs. Data from hundreds of dives (and divers) could be data-scienced. This could turn into dive comp software that gives more specific warnings. Of course "we don't need that"

People accept the rEvo temp sticks. Why don't we have anything making an assessment of sensor life and behavior?

Understanding how accidents happen can make us safer through better understanding, training focus, and/or increasingly better rebreather design.

Of course we now say 90% of it is human factors. Which is true. But there is still a human-machine interface.

 

[justinthedeeps]

The RF4 videos are amazing. Thank you elite presenters!

Sensor block, water on sensors, slow sensors, failing sensors, old sensors etc is not specifically mentioned on this slide. Just something that could lead to hypoxia or hyperoxia, I guess.

Or is that also under "cell logic?" Kind of?
Could be interesting to "Big Data" that on a large dataset of mV, cal & ppO2 data.

 

[rjack321]

People accept the rEvo temp sticks. Why don't we have anything making an assessment of sensor life and behavior?

The same reason why the "1, 2, 3, 4 bars" in the blacktip battery screen are useless.

As for the rest of your post, perhaps get stop speculating on what would or wouldnt be useful. Listen to people with 1000s more CCR hours and actual medical degrees instead of muse on the internet.

 

[Alex Ouroboros]

The same reason why the "1, 2, 3, 4 bars" in the blacktip battery screen are useless.

As for the rest of your post, perhaps get stop speculating on what would or wouldnt be useful. Listen to people with 1000s more CCR hours and actual medical degrees instead of muse on the internet.

Think I’m missing something, Is this not what the minivolt readings are for (sensor degradation) after all a galvanic oxygen cell is basically a dying battery of sorts,
I do think a lot of things regarding rebreather modernisation (if that’s the correct term) are a little gimmicky,
Over 40 yrs ago a lucky fella was strapped in to a Biomarine mk15 that had 3 cells and potentiometers with a fixed set point, a diaphragm (lung) a biscuit tin of kitty litter and a wetsuit, he was promptly shoved out of a sat bell and told to have a paddle about at 1,800’ which he duly did.
Now I’m not saying that I’m against evolution, but I was always taught all the usual check sheet stuff and had a true understanding of sofnolime and exactly how it behaves by a true pioneering expert, the golden rule he told me was never exert yourself.. because the break through is what gets you. Having heard a few strange stories about Co2 cells I think I’ll stick with what I was originally taught rather than falling over myself for Co2 monitoring for now.

 

[Tassi Devil Diver]

The same reason why the "1, 2, 3, 4 bars" in the blacktip battery screen are useless.

Well fortunately the rEvo RMS system has been extensively tested and found to be very effective, but WTF would I know I only have 800hrs on my rEvo.