Rebreather as bailout for sat divers

[Pandora's Box]

Nonsense. Nothing you have presented debunks the fact that sat divers are not capable of remaining conscious, or respiration, as long as typical OC bailout capacity in less than 200 meters in northern climates. Sixty meters in the tropics is a different matter, but that is a tiny percentage of sat diving operations. Therefore, increasing bailout capacity will not increase survivability. In fact, the substantial increase in WOB can inhibit involuntary respirations of an unconscious diver.

It's not accurate that Chris regained consciousness after 2 breaths from the bellman alone. They were also pouring hot water over him well before they got the hat off. There was gas left in his OC bailout so he didn't loose consciousness from lack gas.

I really don't know where to start with this!? Almost every line of it is so wrong it's not even funny. I can't believe a man of your standing in the community would spout such drivel.

Where is your evidence that diver's die before they get back to the bell from hypothermia before they run out of gas???? Where is your evidence that the WoB is substantially increased with this unit? (the unit has met all the WoB standards for NORSOK and EN14143).

It is completely accurate that he regained consciousness after 2 breaths from the bellman. There was also no hot water involved. Let me spell it out for you: I'VE SEEN THE FOOTAGE FROM INSIDE THE BELL!! Does that end it? Does that put your nonsense to bed? Please provide evidence to the contrary if not. Otherwise stop trying to pass personal opinion as fact.

 

[Degenerate]

It is completely accurate that he regained consciousness after 2 breaths from the bellman. There was also no hot water involved. Let me spell it out for you: I'VE SEEN THE FOOTAGE FROM INSIDE THE BELL!!

Nobody here has any reason to take your word for it, so go ahead and share the footage or accept the fact that your word carries very little weight here.

 

[Akimbo]

Where is your evidence that diver's die before they get back to the bell from hypothermia before they run out of gas????

I NEVER stated that! You have a propensity to read things into statements that aren't there.

I have written that I have not found a single case where a sat diver couldn't make it back to the bell on OC bailout — except for Chris on the Bibby Topaz of course due loss of DP control and a severed umbilical. What I wrote is sat divers can and have lost consciousness from hypothermia, NOT that they died. I have also written that divers have died from hyper and hypothermia, not necessarily related to gas loss or being in sat. The hyperthermia incident was in a sat chamber, not in the water. The hypothermia cases that I painfully recall were surface supplied divers in drysuits. The actual COD was shock/heart failure due to hypothermia.

Where is your evidence that the WoB is substantially increased with this unit? (the unit has met all the WoB standards for NORSOK and EN14143).

Because no lung-powered CCR has ever come close to the WOB of demand regulators on modern hats. High enough to be dangerous? Normally no. High enough to reduce the efficiency of involuntary breathing of an unconscious diver? Almost cardinally and definitely not helpful.

As stated before, I was part of an engineering team for an offshore contractor looking at this problem. It was in anticipation of government mandates and potential contracts in 400M above the Arctic Circle. The client's WOB specifications could not be met without adding electrically assisted fans in the loop, especially in suboptimal attitudes in the water. That's pretty simple physics that hasn't change in the decade since.

There was also no hot water involved. Let me spell it out for you: I'VE SEEN THE FOOTAGE FROM INSIDE THE BELL!! Does that end it?

That is inconsistent with industry reports from the other two divers on that bell run. I have seen that video too, which is impossible to see even half of what went on. Besides, that doesn't change the reports that Chris' bailout wasn't empty, which is the most important point.

 

[lowwall]

I have no idea why this thread is even on this site, but I really enjoy these peeks into the sat diving world. Thanks, especially to Akimbo for persisting with this.

 

[Pandora's Box]

go ahead and share the footage

Unfortunately I am not in a position to do that. I wish I was as I'm sure it would show Akimbo's OPINION on this matter to be substantially different from fact.

 

[ofg-1]

Can't you kids get along and play nice?

 

[Pandora's Box]

I NEVER stated that! You have a propensity to read things into statements that aren't there.

I have written that I have not found a single case where a sat diver couldn't make it back to the bell on OC bailout — except for Chris on the Bibby Topaz of course due loss of DP control and a severed umbilical. What I wrote is sat divers can and have lost consciousness from hypothermia, NOT that they died. I have also written that divers have died from hyper and hypothermia, not necessarily related to gas loss or being in sat. The hyperthermia incident was in a sat chamber, not in the water. The hypothermia cases that I painfully recall were surface supplied divers in drysuits. The actual COD was shock/heart failure due to hypothermia.



Because no lung-powered CCR has ever come close to the WOB of demand regulators on modern hats. High enough to be dangerous? Normally no. High enough to reduce the efficiency of involuntary breathing of an unconscious diver? Almost cardinally and definitely not helpful.

As stated before, I was part of an engineering team for an offshore contractor looking at this problem. It was in anticipation of government mandates and potential contracts in 400M above the Arctic Circle. The client's WOB specifications could not be met without adding electrically assisted fans in the loop, especially in suboptimal attitudes in the water. That's pretty simple physics that hasn't change in the decade since.



That is inconsistent with industry reports from the other two divers on that bell run. I have seen that video too, which is impossible to see even half of what went on. Besides, that doesn't change the reports that Chris' bailout wasn't empty, which is the most important point.

Just because you keep repeating the same OPINIONS does not make them facts. Think maybe you guys have been taking too many lessons on fake news from your outgoing POTUS!

Just because a team you were involved with a long time ago couldn't meet a particular spec doesn't mean anything.

I realise almost all new things in diving have their detractors in the beginning; nitrox, dive computers, recreational CCR, probably even the aqualung itself when Cousteau was doing his thing. Your refusal Akimbo to see that this equipment isn't a PDF or a pipedream but actually exists reeks of that mindset.

Have a look at the WoB requirements (including attitudes in the water) that's mandated by the standards the BO rebreather HAS MET already for CE (I quoted them in an earlier post).

The sat diving discussion on this thread is probably of no great interest to the vast majority of people on this forum, but if anyone is truly interested in fact and reality (and not just the outdated opinions of an individual) then all you need to know is freely available online.

That's me out of this thread now as it appears only the OPINION of people who 'carry weight' is valued over actual fact.

Edit: Some quotes from Chris Lemon himself in a newspaper interview:

"“I must have been very cold but I have no recollection of it. I remember my breathing getting harder, tighter, and that was it." This doesn't really chime with having gas left does it Akimbo?

"I assumed it was the extreme cold of the water that slowed my functions down, but the gas we breathe has a high concentration of oxygen which saturated my tissues and cells to allow me to survive."

And taken from Chris's own website: "his miraculous survival story has baffled experts ever since."

However, Akimbo knows best ;-)

 

[Degenerate]

Unfortunately I am not in a position to do that. I wish I was as I'm sure it would show Akimbo's OPINION on this matter to be substantially different from fact.

So you just want us to take your word for it?