Rebreather as bailout for sat divers

[Pandora's Box]

I'm not so sure about that looks to me like a cheaper copy of the YBOD Inspiration.

So was the old SLS one. Nothing wrong with that and it was much better looking.

I'm not sure about that you sure your not thinking of the computer world, diving world is still working fossel fuel

I'm not so sure about that. You sure they did'nt get them for free to make a wee film with. LOL

I’m not so sure that you’re too sure about very much at all!?

Actually I’m slightly offended that you couldn’t be bothered to wind me up properly with something even mildly imaginative and witty. In fact, for someone so clearly knowledgeable (about compressors at least), I’m fairly sure it can only be 3/10 at best for that effort.

I'll play along though and address your points:

• I'm sure it won't be cheaper than an Inspo.
• Aesthetics have no place in critical life support equipment in the commercial diving world (and beauty is in the eye of the beholder). If you'd do a bit of research beforehand you'd also see it has features SLS doesn't (there’s even a couple of handy charts/tables on the company's website publications that explain the differences pretty succinctly for those too lazy to read the blurb).
• I'm sure quite a bit has changed in 30 years actually: materials science, machining and production techniques, CAD, FEA, CFD modelling of gas flow for optimised WOB and scrubber usage, more robust standards, access to high quality test apparatus such as computerised breathing machines, greater understanding of all things diving (how many papers have been published in the last 30 years?), lessons learned from all the pioneers gone before, and 30 more years of post-accident analysis etc etc. Sure the fundamental principles are the same, but so are the fundamental principles behind both a Maclaren F1 and a Model T Ford, but few would argue that motor car technology hasn’t moved on just because we still use pneumatic tyres and the ICE. Besides, my comment (when read in context) was about how folks trying to make a sat diving BO rebreather decades ago might have been unsuccessful but that doesn’t mean folks nowadays haven’t managed to crack it (which they quite clearly have…more than once).
• I’m sure you are acutely aware of the resources (human and financial) required to bring something like Cobra to the market. All the development, testing, CE qualification etc etc so, given the relatively small number of these they are ever likely to sell (they are only for saturation diving after all), my gast would be well and truly flabbered if they gave even one of these away for nothing. I could maybe go with something like a short-term ‘evaluation’ unit for favoured clients but no way could I believe out-and-out freebies. It’s just not really plausible given the size of the market. You wouldn’t by any chance have a commercial axe to grind would you??

Just to be clear, I have no particular axe to grind other than a keen interest in exposing lazy and misinformed commentary when I see it and urging people to resist the easy temptation to repeat rubbish without doing a little research first (although why let the facts get in the way of a good superiority buzz right?). This is the main reason I’ve decided to participate on these web forums I’ve avoided for so long. It irritates me when someone with a lot of knowledge (and hence respect) doesn’t bother to check things out properly and just repeats (or worse still, makes up) BS and passes it off as fact which the fanboys then latch onto and believe/repeat. Several times on this thread I’ve shown individuals (who appear to be held in high esteem by the online community) to be downright wrong. Not with opinion, but with freely available facts. Instead of a thanks for putting them right I get attacked for having the temerity to challenge their authority. This attitude doesn't help to advance our knowledge of a shared passion.

Fortunately the people buying and using this equipment are savvy enough not to let misinformation on recreational scuba forums (promulgated by individuals who’ve never had hands-on the equipment under discussion) influence their thinking.

When people denigrate a piece of equipment that they have no experience of, and can't be bothered to undertake even 5 minutes of research on a company's website, it really rips my knitting. This is exacerbated when people then turn to puerile point-scoring, ‘witty banter’, obfuscation, tangential arguments, and fake news in the absence of real knowledge.

Fake news will be the end of us all!

 

[Pandora's Box]

I hear it's going to be be called the "Rotoflood"

Did you really hear that Iain, or did you make it up because you thought it was witty (even though almost no-one reading this thread (on what is basically a recreational scuba forum) will get the ‘joke’)? Don’t give up the day job just yet. A career in comedy is still a long way off!

 

[iain/hsm]

Did you really hear that Iain, or did you make it up because you thought it was witty (even though almost no-one reading this thread (on what is basically a recreational scuba forum) will get the ‘joke’)? Don’t give up the day job just yet. A career in comedy is still a long way off!

Heck if I had known someone was reading I would have added that the new "Rota Flood" flood detector is a mechanical device a bit like a Christmas "Snow Globe"

If the SLS "Rota Flood" indicator gets wet inside you just shake and see "snowflakes"

Besides its from the old SLS days and a throw back to the internal Gas Management panel in the bell. That had a couple of "Rota Winks" fitted to kept you awake during bell runs at night. You can see them for yourself in the Divex catalogue.

 

[iain/hsm]

• I'm sure it won't be cheaper than an Inspo.

Maybe not they were £8500 each when the SLS was first built.

• Aesthetics have no place in critical life support equipment in the commercial diving world (and beauty is in the eye of the beholder). If you'd do a bit of research beforehand you'd also see it has features SLS doesn't (there’s even a couple of handy charts/tables on the company's website publications that explain the differences pretty succinctly for those too lazy to read the blurb).

I'm not sure about that. LOL

• I'm sure quite a bit has changed in 30 years actually: materials science, machining and production techniques, CAD, FEA, CFD modelling of gas flow for optimised WOB and scrubber usage, more robust standards, access to high quality test apparatus such as computerised breathing machines, greater understanding of all things diving (how many papers have been published in the last 30 years?), lessons learned from all the pioneers gone before, and 30 more years of post-accident analysis etc etc.

From the original SLS design your about correct on it being around 30 years I can check this if you like and give you exact date. Yes the original drawings were pen and ink but there was a breathing machine back then for the trials. It was a big split ball on wheels I remember, one of three built for the Royal Navy.

• I’m sure you are acutely aware of the resources (human and financial) required to bring something like Cobra to the market. All the development, testing, CE qualification etc etc so, given the relatively small number of these they are ever likely to sell

I can look up the exact numbers costs and man hours dates and time taken to design test and build the SLS if you like.

It irritates me when someone with a lot of knowledge (and hence respect) doesn’t bother to check things out properly. This attitude doesn't help to advance our knowledge of a shared passion.

For the first part its called posting from memory
For the second part it's called experience

What your asking for is knowedge that's easy to give away and free.
It's the experience that I find real hard to transfer onto a divers forum.

Fortunately the people buying and using this equipment are savvy enough not to let misinformation on recreational scuba forums (promulgated by individuals who’ve never had hands-on the equipment under discussion) influence their thinking.

I'm not sure about that

When people denigrate a piece of equipment that they have no experience of, and can't be bothered to undertake even 5 minutes of research on a company's website, it really rips my knitting.
Fake news will be the end of us all!

Sorry to hear about your ripped knitting would it help if I lent you my certificate of training for the SLS. I did the course some time back. Maybe we could swap it for a knitting patterns although a knitting pattern is much more complicated and more useful to me now a days . LOL

 

[Dr Simon Mitchell]

Further details of the DL umbilical unit pg125 http://www.edtc.org/MINUTES/Minutes 2012 Oslo Members Meeting.pdf

Hello Brad,

This thread is a good example of what happens when a sat diving bailout rebreather is on the market, works, and has real world end-users. You can find a manufacturer website that advertises the product, and you can find abundant contemporary evidence of the product in actual use by clients who have purchased it.

On another matter:

He didn't! He regained consciousness after 2 breaths from the bellman. Again it even says so in the old thread quote you attached. He wasn't warmed up until later thus adding more evidence to hypothermia being only a contributory factor at best, and the main reason for blackout actually being hypoxia and/or CO2! He didn't then drown because he was wearing a hat and his airway was kept dry (rec CCR guys take heed...get a gag strap if you haven't got one already and you might just get rescued).

I believe this is the correct medical interpretation of that event.

Simon M

 

[Pandora's Box]

Heck if I had known someone was reading I would have added that the new "Rota Flood" flood detector is a mechanical device a bit like a Christmas "Snow Globe"

If the SLS "Rota Flood" indicator gets wet inside you just shake and see "snowflakes"

Besides its from the old SLS days and a throw back to the internal Gas Management panel in the bell. That had a couple of "Rota Winks" fitted to kept you awake during bell runs at night. You can see them for yourself in the Divex catalogue.

Thanks for that Iain. You’ve saved me a lot of typing with this brilliant example illustrating my point about people with deep knowledge in one area but only superficial or out-dated knowledge in another posting misinformation in the hope that the readers know even less.

The rotowink is not a flood indicator or something that changes when it “gets wet inside”. If you really knew what you were talking about you’d know its function on SLS is to indicate positive pressure in the loop. This reassures the diver his parachute is primed and ready should it be required. And yes Mara Panels have them too (again as indicators of pressure not water ingress), and so does Cobra already (which you'd know if you bothered to check before posting ). The device alluded to in an earlier post by fisheyelens is something completely different.

Your post also neatly illustrates my remarks about ‘witty banter’, obfuscation, and tangential ‘knowledge’ that really have no relevance to what’s being discussed and are employed only as a poor attempt, again, to give others reading-in (with even less knowledge) the impression that you know what you’re talking about. Again, thanks. With everything you write you provide more evidence to support my position. Keep up the good work

 

[jgttrey]

The substance of the discussion is interesting, but wading through the "¿Quien Es Mas Macho?" snarkiness is tiresome.

 

[Pandora's Box]

What your asking for is knowedge that's easy to give away and free.
It's the experience that I find real hard to transfer onto a divers forum.

No that’s not what I’m asking for at all (especially on this particular topic). What I’m actually asking is that clever people stop letting themselves and others down by posting ‘knowledge’ based on sketchy recall from something vaguely similar they once saw decades ago, especially when the facts are freely available with a 5 minute session on Google.

I could go through almost every line of your entire post and show it to be nothing more than an attempt to convey the illusion of knowledge on this piece of kit (by relating it to incorrect knowledge of something else??), but evidently others are bored by that so I'll leave it there.

 

[iain/hsm]

Thanks for that Iain. You’ve saved me a lot of typing with this brilliant example illustrating my point about people with deep knowledge in one area but only superficial or out-dated knowledge in another posting misinformation in the hope that the readers know even less.

Im not so sure about that......... I just thought you were pissed being called a snowflake

The rotowink is not a flood indicator or something that changes when it “gets wet inside”. If you really knew what you were talking

Could have sworn I called it "Roto Flood" and did.

Your post also neatly illustrates my remarks about ‘witty banter’, obfuscation, and tangential ‘knowledge’

I'm with you on the tangential knowledge we cant have that on the forum now can we.
Bit like that mime with the guy typing like crazy with the caption "Some one is wrong on the internet"
Would it help your other reader if I explained things you cant Google about the SLS

 

[iain/hsm]

No that’s not what I’m asking for at all (especially on this particular topic). What I’m actually asking is that clever people stop letting themselves and others down by posting ‘knowledge’ based on sketchy recall from something vaguely similar they once saw decades ago, especially when the facts are freely available with a 5 minute session on Google.

Hey why didnt you say Google it last year, save us all the bother.