Reasons why you should not take a course through a dive shop

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Diver0001

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A bit of background for this thread:

I've been a diver since 1984 but only seriously involved in the teaching end of it since about 2002 and an instructor for 7 or 8 years. In that time I've seen a lot, done a lot of training and had to balance the commercial interests of the shop I was working through with my own interests and goals in teaching. At times the match worked out but as time has progressed, the economy has changed and many shops have come under severe financial pressure. I believe it's time to express an opinion as a seasoned professional about how I believe it's wise *at this time* for people seeking training to go about it.

Part 1 : The goals of shops.

It sounds obvious, but I'm going to say it anyway. The goal of any shop is to make a profit, or at least to survive. As a business, survival is the minimum goal. A goal that you, as a diver, help to fulfill by one simple act... spending money.

On the surface of it, you may think that shops benefit by divers being active and you would be right. However, shops do NOT profit as much from divers who are self-sufficient as they do from divers who need "help". Help with the next best course, help with the newest gadgets, help buying and then upgrading their gear again and again. What the most profitable shops need most are "active" AND "dependent" divers. Divers who are NOT too well trained, NOT too well informed. Divers who need guides, who need someone to organize things, who need to rent (or buy) gear and most of all divers who doubt just enough in their own abilities that they keep coming back for more, but not so much that they stop diving. It's a knife edge balancing act.

In other words, the basic business model of all shops is (a) to sell stuff and (b) to keep you on a leash.

Some shops (the best ones) try to couch this is a comfortable, fun, social, interactive and adventuresome atmosphere but the basics, regardless of the fact that some shops are very adept at selling the "scene" are still the same. Sell stuff and keep them on a leash (meaning, don't make them too independent).

Now.... let's take a step back from that and look at what this means for training.

Shops sell training. So what are their goals? First and foremost, it's to bring you into the fold. To get you active and get that credit card warmed up. However, YOUR goal, as a diver is to get the best training you can because... after all... it's your life and you value that. The SHOP's goal is to give the least amount of training you will accept in order to maximize their profit, to stay active and to not walk away. Most shops (and all professionally run ones) have a "risk plan" that involves responses to "accidental deaths" which, without going into detail involves covering their asses. What does that mean to you as a diver? this: that the shop is AIMING to deliver the lowest quality training they can that will keep you active and on a leash and if something happens to you then they will cover their ass and squirm out of it.

That's the hard HARD reality of the diving business when looked at from the shop's perspective and that's the attitude (behind the smiles) that you buy when you take a course at a shop.

Part 2: The goals of the instructor.

SOME instructors do it for the money. Most, as you are well aware, would literally make more money shaking the oil out of french fries at McDonalds than they do giving diving lessons. So what on EARTH is their motivation?

The most committed instructors do it because they love diving. They want to share diving. They want people to *become* divers. Speaking only for myself, I teach because I want to contribute my small part to creating safe, competent, interested divers who choose this sport as a hobby for their pleasure and relaxation. I'm sure many instructors would say something similar.

So what part of that involves low-balling your training and keeping you on a leash? None of it.

And there is the rub. As an instructor, working through shops is a double edged blade. You have easy access to students but constant pressure to short change them on their training.

This leads to three kinds of instructors that you often encounter at shops:

1) instructors who choose the shop's stance. They will tell you things like "the course takes X days and after that we'll take you out to make sure you get the experience" . (read, they want to low-ball training and keep you on a leash)

2) instructors who seek a balance. They will say "you'll need at LEAST X days for the training and after that you'll need to anchor those new skills by doing the dives". (read they'll go the extra mile if you will).

3) instructors who say. "The shop aims for A, I aim for B. Depending on your own goals we'll land somewhere between A and B". (read, I want to teach diving, do you want to learn?).

4) there is also a 4th category of what I call "egocentric" instructors who say "I want B, if you don't want B then you're not good enough". You see them (alas all too frequently) on the internet but you're unlikely to encounter them at a shop.

I don't have to tell you which one I am and I don't have to tell you which one every single well respected scubaboard instructor is..... Every single instructor I know who is worth his weight in gold is a #3. Every single instructor I know who I wouldn't let come within 10 metres of my child is a #1.

and now you know based on one simple question, how to tell how the instructor you're interviewing sees the world. Simply ask them "How do you approach this course?"

Part 3: independent instructors.

It's important to understand that ALL of the instructors who are in it for the money are freelancers. The reason is simple. Shops simply can't afford to pay instructors what they're worth. So as as student you need a way to filter out the greedy ones who are in it for themselves from the motivated ones who are in it for you.

This can best be done two ways.

1) ask for references. Instructors who are proud of their results will not hesitate to give references and they'll have a long list ready for you. Instructors who are in it for the money are going to let you call their wife or their best buddy but probably won't give you more than 1 or 2 references.

2) ask them for something for free, like "can I come diving with you on Saturday to see you in the water". Instructors who want you to be a diver will *probably* say, "sure, tag along". Instructors who want to milk you are going to become uneasy with that question.

Part 4: Finally:

In my humble opinion, given everything I've seen and experienced over the last 10+ years as an instructor, I would strongly advise people to seek independent instructors who have good connections than to walk into the nearest shop and ask for a course.

in NO case have I ever seen a shop whose primary interest was the best result for their client. However, if you approach instructors independently then you chances of getting a quality course improve dramatically.

R..
 
can I share this post? Very well thought out and true and so many regards.
 
I disagree on two levels

Shop instructors purposely trying to turn out uninformed, poorly skilled divers in hopes that they will spend money due to their ignorance is preposterous.

Yes, shops are out to make a profit, but people need to be accountable for themselves. Shops may try to talk you into something, but in the end it is your choice.
 
I have a similar background to you, I've been diving for 19 years, worked in the industry for 12 years and teaching for 10. I would say that your opinion of the motivations of all dive shops would realistically apply only to a small portion of shops. Many store owners come from the same background as you or me and their goal in starting a shop is furthering the same mentalities that you point out make for the best instructors. On the flip side I have seen independent instructors who will intentionally short change their students and try and force them to enroll in additional classes in order to gain training they should have received at the basic level. So there really is no general difference between the motivations of instructors and those of the retail training facilities. Some (very few) shops do take the approach of keep them on a leash as you put it and some (again, very few in my experience) independent instructors take the same approach with training. Your painting all shops with the bad apple brush and all independent instructors with the good apple brush shows a considerable lack of a rounded out experience in the industry. It sounds to me like as an independent instructor you had a bad experience with a particular shop, or particular shop owner and are attempting to generalize that onto an entire industry. Considering most shop owners are people exactly like you and who have been teaching for years and want to improve their abilities to give the best experience to the students they are introducing to the sport. I would say that the biases you expressed above reveal a severely fractured understanding of the industry as a whole.

---------- Post added February 15th, 2013 at 09:58 AM ----------

And the whole basis of your argument that the evil shops are out to make a profit but independent instructors somehow are not is absurd. Shops AND instructors are out to make money, They're in business after all. They have both chosen a rather inefficient means of doing so but in both cases the drawbacks of choosing to work in a barely profitable industry are balanced by getting to work doing a hobby that we love.
 
I disagree on two levels
Happy to have the discussion

Shop instructors purposely trying to turn out uninformed, poorly skilled divers in hopes that they will spend money due to their ignorance is preposterous.

I should clarify. Shop instructors are in a position where they need to "balance" their training objectives (which are often quality related) with the boundaries given them by their employers (which are time and money related). In my many years of project management and crisis management experience I can tell you that you can pull REALLY hard on two corners of the time-money-quality triangle but the other one has to give. I would submit that most shops are (presently) pulling on the "money" corner and to a lesser extent on the "time" corner and that the quality corner is generally their lowest priority.... and for a reason. As I said, shops don't want people to walk away, so they want people to be slightly under trained to create dependence. This is NOT what a lot of instructors WANT but it's what they end up delivering because of the context the have to accept.

In terms of instructors, let me be respectful to my colleagues. I'm absolutely sure that if you interviewed 100 shop instructors that a majority of them would say that they spend less time on training than they would like to "in a perfect world". The other 20% (or so) are the #1's I referred to above and they're the instructors who give the rest of us a bad name.

Yes, shops are out to make a profit, but people need to be accountable for themselves. Shops may try to talk you into something, but in the end it is your choice.
Very true. Ergo, you must realise that you have *made* a choice. Many people buy training through shops because they naive or ignorant (in the sense of being unaware) and are not aware that the choice was made *for* them and that other options of which they were not aware were available.

R..
 
I think you raise interesting points, and I don't have enough experience with a large number of shops to comment on "most" shops.

However, during my AOW training with my shop, I was encouraged to pursue GUE Fundamentals, even though my shop does not have a GUE instructor, nor is there one in the area. My shop has received no revenue from my GUE training, even though they encouraged it.

Would you say that my shop is unique? or, at least in the minority?
 
I should say, before we go much further, that I am not *anti shop*.

But I am against shops offering training.

What I believe shops should be (and do) anno 2013 is to offer facilities. Gear rentals, agreements with pools for rental times, sales and consumables (air etc).

Shops should *charge* instructors for organising these services and allow instructors to offer their own courses based on hiring these services from the shop. Discounts and agency interfacing can also be organized by the shop, for minimal overhead.

This way individual instructors can pull as hard as they want on any of the three corners of the time-quality-money triangle and the shop can offer an variety of options for students with different needs.

However, this is a serious paradigm shift for many shops (and instructors) and although I see this happening around me, we haven't navigated this corner yet.

R..

---------- Post added February 15th, 2013 at 04:23 PM ----------

I think you raise interesting points, and I don't have enough experience with a large number of shops to comment on "most" shops.

However, during my AOW training with my shop, I was encouraged to pursue GUE Fundamentals, even though my shop does not have a GUE instructor, nor is there one in the area. My shop has received no revenue from my GUE training, even though they encouraged it.

Would you say that my shop is unique? or, at least in the minority?

I would say any shop that referred you to a 3rd party for any particular service is an exception, yes. It's not in their interest to do this.

R..
 
Diver0001 makes many points that may be true in general, or true of shops with which he is familiar, but I do not think the comments are universally applicable. Sadly, it is true of some, and of some with which I have had experience. However, here in the greater Denver area there is competition, and ours is a service industry. Competent instruction, competitive pricing for classes and equipment, a quality service department, sponsorship of "trade in trade up" events for people who want to update and upgrade their gear, and offering of dive trips to destinations world wide are all important to my LDS in maintaining and growing it's customer base. Beyond that, and what is stressed as most important is quality instruction. Creating new divers is creating new customers. Creating competent new divers who are excited and enthusiastic about the sport leads to continuing education customers. It is quality instruction that leads to continuing relationships. That is why we offer kids only classes, women only classes, private,classes, semi-private classes, weekend classes, week night classes, and other accommodations at all levels of training, from open water to instructor training. We have volume, but we have quality personal instruction in each class. I appreciate the excellent independent instructors, many who post here on SB regularly. But I am also very proud of my affiliation with UnderwaterPhantaseas of Lakewood, Colorado.
 
A bit of background for this thread:


Part 1 : The goals of shops.

It sounds obvious, but I'm going to say it anyway. The goal of any shop is to make a profit, or at least to survive. As a business, survival is the minimum goal. A goal that you, as a diver, help to fulfill by one simple act... spending money.

In other words, the basic business model of all shops is (a) to sell stuff and (b) to keep you on a leash.


Now.... let's take a step back from that and look at what this means for training.

Shops sell training. So what are their goals? First and foremost, it's to bring you into the fold. To get you active and get that credit card warmed up. However, YOUR goal, as a diver is to get the best training you can because... after all... it's your life and you value that. The SHOP's goal is to give the least amount of training you will accept in order to maximize their profit, to stay active and to not walk away. Most shops (and all professionally run ones) have a "risk plan" that involves responses to "accidental deaths" which, without going into detail involves covering their asses. What does that mean to you as a diver? this: that the shop is AIMING to deliver the lowest quality training they can that will keep you active and on a leash and if something happens to you then they will cover their ass and squirm out of it.

That's the hard HARD reality of the diving business when looked at from the shop's perspective and that's the attitude (behind the smiles) that you buy when you take a course at a shop.

I have to disagree with you on some of this. Name one business that doesn't want sell you something?

2) ask them for something for free, like "can I come diving with you on Saturday to see you in the water". Instructors who want you to be a diver will *probably* say, "sure, tag along". Instructors who want to milk you are going to become uneasy with that question.

In our area I wouldn't take anybody out without any training. Our area and those like it are challenging.

in NO case have I ever seen a shop whose primary interest was the best result for their client. However, if you approach instructors independently then you chances of getting a quality course improve dramatically.

R..


I guess you haven't been to enough stores.
 

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